[00:00:01]
GO.[1. Call Meeting To Order]
GOOD EVENING.THE TIME IS 6:30 PM TODAY IS TUESDAY, MAY 9TH.
I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS REGULARLY SCHEDULED PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER.
MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? DELORE.
[3. Minutes]
NEXT ITEM NUMBER THREE MINUTES.A PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING.
REGULAR MEETING WITH A MOTION.
I MOVE THAT WE, WE APPROVE ITEM THREE.
IT'S BEEN MOVED BY, UH, COMMISSIONER JAMES, SECONDED BY VICE CHAIR.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT MOTION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ITEM NUMBER FOUR, ASSISTANT COMMENTS AT THIS TIME THERE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, WE INVITE YOU UP.
NOW SEEING NOW WE'LL GO AND CLOSE CITIZEN COMMENTS.
[5. Consent]
UM, MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER FIVE, CONSENT AGENDA.WE HAVE CONSENT AGENDA ITEM A TODAY.
IT'S BEEN MOVED BY, UH, UH, VICE CHAIR CHASE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER JAMES.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT MOTION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
[A.
Discussion and possible action regarding minimum lot sizes and the I-35 overlay district.
]ITEM NUMBER SIX, CONSIDER IMPOSSIBLE ACTION SIX.A DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING MINIMUM LOT SIZES AND THE I 35 OVERLAY DISTRICT.
UM, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO SAY FIRST, UH, MR. ATKINSON? YES, UH, WILL ATKINSON, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING FOR THE RECORD, UH, PUT THESE, BOTH OF THESE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA BECAUSE, UM, THEY SHOULD BE RELATIVELY EASY TO DISCUSS WITHOUT MUCH BACKING MATERIAL OR NONE IN THIS CASE.
UH, ONE OF THEM THE I THREE TO FIVE OVERLAY, WE'VE PROBABLY ALREADY PRIMARILY DISCUSSED, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE WANTED TO DISCUSS ABOUT THAT.
UM, AND WE CAN PROBABLY, IF Y'ALL ARE OKAY WITH THAT, WE CAN TAKE THAT ITEM UP FIRST OF THE TWO.
SO I THINK, UM, LAST TIME IT WAS, HOW MANY OF THE DEVELOPMENTS ACTUALLY ADHERE TO THE RED BRICK AND WHITE LIMESTONE FACADE THAT'S PREFERRED WITHIN THE CODE VERSUS HOW MANY THERE'S, THERE'S NOT, AND WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITE NUMBER ON THAT, BUT A MAJORITY OF THE DEVELOPMENT TO LONG R 35 DOES NOT.
AND IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT, BUT THEY DO GET SOME, UM, THEY DO GET SOME WIGGLE ROOM OR A LITTLE BIT BETTER, UM, STANDARDS TO THEM IF, UH, IF THEY DO DO THAT.
SO, UM, WE'VE HAD HUNDREDS SINCE 2003 FOR CS, SO IT'S KIND OF HARD TO GO BACK AND ACTUALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT THE PERCENTAGE.
BUT, UM, THE QUESTION TO Y'ALL, I GUESS IS, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE WANT TO DO IN AN UNOFFICIAL MANNER? LIKE A CERTAIN NUMBER, A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF IT YOU WANT, WANT TO SEE FOR DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS? UM, DO YOU WANT US JUST TO TAKE THAT LITTLE BIT OUT OF THE STAFF REPORT? IS THERE ANY DIRECTION Y'ALL WANNA SEE GENERALLY FROM IT? PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THOUGH, THAT WE CAN'T REALLY, UM, WE SHOULD STRIVE NOT TO OFFICIALLY AMEND THE I 35 OVERLAY BECAUSE OF THE HOUSE BILL 24 39 FROM 2018 KIND OF PUT IN.
UH, IT'S KIND OF FROZEN IN PLACE AS A PRES PRESERVED, UH, OVERLAY DISTRICT.
SO IF WE OPEN IT UP TO ALTER IT, IT CAN GET, IT MIGHT POSSIBLY GET TOSSED OUT COMPLETELY.
SO, BUT IF WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT Y'ALL ARE LOOKING FOR, AT LEAST WE CAN, WE CAN KIND OF WORK ON THAT TOO.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS? YES, SIR.
UH, I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, FOR THE STAFF, SINCE A MAJORITY OF THE BUILDINGS DO NOT ADHERE TO ZONING, I KNOW WHAT THE CODE SAYS, BUT IS THERE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE ON I 35 THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR US? WELL, THE BUILDING THAT WE ARE IN IS THE, THE ONE THAT EVERYTHING STEMS FROM.
SO, BUT THIS ONE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE OF AN, OF A LITTLE BIT BETTER URBAN FORM, MORE, UH, LATE 18 HUNDREDS CENTRAL SQUARE KIND OF FEEL.
UM, BUT, UH, THE TARGET SHOPPING CENTER IS PROBABLY THE PRIME CANDIDATE.
MOST OF THE BUILDINGS IN THERE, A LOT OF 'EM HAVE A, A MIX OF, OR SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THE RED BRICK AND WHITE LIMESTONE FEEL.
UM, I'M THINKING THE, UH, THE ONE THAT SAYS KYLE ER, UM, CHICKEN EXPRESS, CHICK-FIL-A.
ADVANCED AUTO EVEN, UM, STRIP MM-HMM.
THEY HAVE A LOT OF CM U SO THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE THE WHITE LIMESTONE, BUT THEY DO HAVE THE COLOR PALETTE TO SOME EXTENT.
YEAH, A LOT OF THE ONES OVER THERE IN THE TARGET SHOPPING CENTER, INCLUDING TARGET AND THE SIDE OF KOHL'S AT LEAST FACING MARKETPLACE.
[00:05:01]
SO THAT, THAT'S YOUR, THAT'S YOUR, THOSE ARE YOUR PRIME EXAMPLES.ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UM, SO I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT AND THEY, THEY'VE TRIED TO SWEETEN THE DEAL BY INCENTIVIZING, UH, THE DEVELOPERS IN THE, IN THE ORDINANCE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER KIND OF TOOLS IN THE TOOLBOX THAT WE COULD CONSIDER GOING INTO? UM, I KNOW YOU SAID WE DON'T WANNA AMEND THIS, BUT IS THERE ANY, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE AVAILABLE TO US? CUZ IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE MANY FOLKS ARE TAKING UP THE CITY ON THIS OFFER, AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE CONSIDERED OUR, OUR OPTIONS.
SO, SO SOME OF THAT IS WHEN THEY'RE HAVING DISCUSSIONS WITH US AND OCCASIONALLY THEY DO ASK THAT QUESTION.
SO WE LOOKED AT THE I 35 OVERLAY.
DO WE NEED TO COMPLY WITH THE RED BRICK AND WHITE LIMESTONE? SO FOR THE LAST, OH, WHAT WAS IT, 2015 WHEN HOWARD STARTED BEING THE PLANNING DIRECTOR, UM, HE KIND OF SET THE TONE FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
WE JUST KIND OF CARRIED THE TORCH WHERE IT'S LIKE WE, WE DO LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE BIT OF VARIATION THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
UM, SO IT'S, IF YOU WILL DEFINITELY ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THE RED BRICK AND WHITE LIMESTONE, BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, THAT'S FINE TOO.
SO IT HASN'T REALLY BEEN A BIG PUSH ON THE, ON THE STAFF TO TRY TO REALLY PUSH THAT COLOR, THAT COLOR SCHEME, THE COLOR PALETTE OR DESIGN STANDARD.
UM, SO IF WE NEED, IF, IF WE WANT TO START TURNING THAT BACK TOWARDS THAT, THAT'S FINE.
WE CAN START WORKING WITH 'EM ON THAT.
THAT'S WHERE IT STARTS, AT LEAST THE CONVERSATIONS.
UM, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO OTHER INCENTIVES, IF YOU WILL, UM, IF, IF IT'S IN THE I 35 OVERLAY, THERE'S SOME, IF, UH, IF A BUSINESS IS COMING IN ASKING FOR SOME TAX ABATEMENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT WITH CITY COUNCIL, MAYBE THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY RIGHT THERE TO THROW THAT IN.
FOR THE, ON A CHAPTER THREE 80, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE CALLED.
UH, IT'S A, THE CHAPTER FROM THE STATE LAW, UM, WHERE WE CAN, WE CAN GO FROM THERE.
WE ALREADY ACCOUNT FOR IT WITH THE MASONRY FOR SURE.
UM, NOT 100% MASONRY, BUT THAT'S THE REASONING.
BUT IF WE'RE GOING IN THAT DIRECTION AND THE COUNCIL'S CONSIDERING, UH, HAVING THOSE TAX ABATEMENTS FOR THOSE BUSINESSES, THERE'S USUALLY A GOOD REASON, MAYBE IT'S A BUSINESS RETENTION EXPANSION OR IT'S A REALLY AWESOME BUSINESS THAT WE WANT TO SEE COME TO KYLE AND WE'RE TRYING TO INCENTIVIZE THEM ANYWAY SO THAT, THAT, THAT COULD BE ONE TOOL OFFHAND AT LEAST.
YOU SAID THAT WAS CHAPTER THREE 80.
UH, COUNCIL, UM, HAS SOLE AUTHORITY OVER WHETHER THEY GRANT THOSE OR NOT, BUT GENERALLY IF THEY DO DO THAT, UM, IF THEY WANT TO HAVE A A TAX ABATEMENT, WE ASK FOR STUFF IN RETURN AS WELL.
SO THAT'S A BIG THING IS THE FACADE TREATMENTS, WHICH WE TRY TO DO OUR VERY BEST TO MAKE SURE THEY MEET THE THREE FIVE OVERLAY.
SO WHEN IT COMES TO YOU, IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
UM, WE'RE ALSO, AND WE HAVEN'T REALLY NAILED IT DOWN YET, WE'RE STILL KIND OF IN RESEARCH AND TALKING WITH LEGAL.
WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW, AND IT'S PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON THE DOWNTOWN AREA, UM, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN HAVE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES TO LEGALLY ENFORCE, UM, ARCHITECTURAL STYLES AS WELL.
SO WE'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THAT.
BUT FROM AN IN INCENTIVE INCENTIVE STANDPOINT THAT CHAPTER THREE DS ARE THE BIGGEST ONES OUTSIDE JUST THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE I 35 OVERLAY.
PUTS AS WELL, IF THEY WANT SOME VARIANCES OR WAIVERS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, WE CAN SAY, OKAY, YOU WANNA DO THIS AND THAT.
LET'S THROW IN, UH, UH, A MUTUAL MUTUALLY ASSURED AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE BOTH PARTIES AND LET'S THROW SOME ELEVATIONS IN THERE.
SO THERE ARE TWO MAIN THINGS I SEE FROM THIS DISCUSSION THAT WE SHOULD TRY TO, TO DECIDE AS A, AS A BODY.
ONE IS, DO WE WANT TO SEE MORE OF THIS IN OUR CITY GOING FORWARD? WOULD WE LIKE FOR STAFF TO STRESS THESE STANDARDS MORE AS, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPERS COME? AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION IS, UM, SHOULD THIS BE CON DO WE SEE BENEFIT TO THIS BEING ON THE STAFF REPORT GOING FORWARD? IF THEY DO OR DO NOT MEET THIS, DOES THAT HELP US IN OUR DECISION MAKING OR NOT? IS THAT SOMETHING WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE CONTINUE? AND SO I THINK THOSE ARE THE TWO QUESTIONS I THINK TO MOVE FORWARD.
I WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO ANSWER THOSE TWO QUESTIONS BASED ON WHAT OUR PREFERENCE IS AS A BODY
DOES ANYONE HAVE THOUGHTS ON EITHER OF THOSE ITEMS? SO I SEE THE BENEFIT, BUT I ALSO SEE
[00:10:02]
ONE OR TWO MM-HMM.RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN ISSUE WITH, YOU KNOW, THE P TERRY'S AND THAT WHOLE STRIP IS JUST A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT BUILDINGS, UH, GOING IN.
UM, BUT THAT'S PASSED AT THIS POINT.
UM, AND THEN I'M LOOKING AT, WELL, HOW MUCH MORE LAND DO WE HAVE ON THAT STRIP? AND DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO CONTINUE THAT IF IT'S IN ITSELF GONNA BE STANDING OUT WHEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS, IS DIFFERENT.
SO, UM, I THINK ONE, IT'S GOOD TO KEEP IT ON THE STAFF REPORT AS JUST A REMINDER OF, OKAY, THIS IS OUR PROCESS AND I HAVE A FEELING IF, UM, THAT DECISION IN 2018 DIDN'T HAPPEN, WE'D PROBABLY BE HAVING A DISCUSSION OF, IS THIS THE RIGHT LOOK STILL? UM, SO ONE, YES, I'M FINE WITH, WITH CONTINUING ON THE STAFF REPORT.
TWO, I, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT I PERSONALLY THINK WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO, TO TRY TO ENFORCE AND PUSH DEPENDING ON LOCATION.
I MEAN, THAT, THAT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH IT AS WELL.
DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? MR. CHAIRMAN? COMMISSIONER? I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT, UH, I WOULD THINK THE BUSINESSES THAT ARE IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO I 35, LIKE TO HAVE THEIR OWN LOOK AND FEEL THAT'S PART OF THEIR ADVERTISEMENT AND THEIR RECOGNIZABLE BUILDINGS AND RECOGNIZABLE SIGNAGE.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF IT MAKES SENSE TO REALLY PUSH IT ALONG THE IMMEDIATE CORRIDOR THERE AND, UH, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE PASSING MOTORISTS THAT ARE TRYING TO BE ATTRACTED, UH, WOULD BENEFIT FROM, FROM THAT MAY.
MAYBE IT'S KIND OF A, WHAT CAN I SAY, GRADUATED SORT OF THING THAT AWAY FROM AWAY FROM THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF I 35.
IT MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE TO, TO TRY TO BE ENFORCEABLE THERE.
BUT MR. ATKINSON, I'M GONNA ASK YOU IF THE BUSINESSES ALONG THERE, IF THEY'RE APPROACHED WITH THE I 35 OVERLAY STANDARDS, WHAT'S THEIR FEEDBACK ON THAT? UH, PETE TERRYS WAS USED AS AN EXAMPLE.
SO HOW ABOUT BUSINESSES LIKE THAT, RESTAURANTS AND SO FORTH? WELL, I'LL SAY THE CAVEAT, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE PERCENTAGE OF MASONRY WAS FOR PETE TERRY'S, BUT CERTAINLY IN P P TERRY'S CASE AS A EXAMPLE, THEY DO HAVE A VERY ICONIC LOOK, UH, FROM A, AS A REGIONAL CHAIN FOR AROUND AUSTIN.
THEY GOT THE, I'M GONNA CALL IT 50 SIXTIES ERA, LIKE CANTILEVER WEDGE OR I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU WANNA CALL IT, BUT IT HAS AN ICONIC LOOK.
SO WE TRIED TO WORK WITH THEM TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT, BUT ALSO TRY TO GET AS CLOSE AS WE COULD TO THE R 35 LIST STANDARDS.
AND THAT ONE, THAT SPECIFIC ONE REQUIRED A LITTLE BIT OF FLEXIBILITY BECAUSE, UM, THE WAY THAT PITCHED ROOF IS ON THE SIDE OF IT, YOU CAN'T REALLY HAVE MASONRY ATTACHED TO IT WITHOUT IT POTENTIALLY HAVING CAUSING ISSUES.
UM, SO, UM, I STARTED GOING OFF ON A TANGENT.
WHAT WAS YOUR QUESTION? I'M SO SORRY.
WELL, THE QUESTION WAS, UH, MORE OF AMUSING RATHER THAN A QUESTION.
UM, AND I'M KIND OF OPENING THAT UP TO MY FELLOW, UH, COMMISSIONERS.
I FEEL LIKE WE'RE KIND OF STUCK IN THIS PLACE WHERE LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO, THERE'S A TOOL THAT'S BEEN TAKEN AWAY IN OTHER SPACES.
THIS IS A GOOD TOOL, BUT FOR THE AREA THAT WE HAVE IT IN, IT MAY NOT BE THE TOOL THAT'S USEFUL AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
MAINLY BECAUSE WHERE I SEE THE STANDARDS BEING MOST EFFECTIVE IS GETTING FURTHER FROM THAT LITTLE CITY CENTER POINT.
THE BUSINESSES THAT ARE, ARE COMING INTO THE, LIKE THAT COOLER, THE, UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE TARGET IS.
WELL SOME OF THEM MIGHT NEED THAT.
LIKE THE, THE SHOPPING CENTERS.
THAT'S A REALLY GOOD THING FOR WE GET TO PEE TERRY'S AND WILLIE'S ICE HOUSE AND ALL THOSE ONES THAT WE'VE HAD VARIANCES FOR WHERE THEY'VE TRIED, TRIED TO MEET US HALFWAY OR I DON'T KNOW, IT'S NECESSARILY THE THING THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR THAT OVERLAY TO DO.
SO I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD IF, IF WE COULD ENFORCE SOME OF THOSE STANDARDS OUTWARD.
I JUST DUNNO HOW WE COULD DO THAT UNDER THE CURRENT SCHEME OF, WITH THE HOUSE BILL THAT YOU HAD REFERENCED.
SO WE, SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE LIKE SIX, I THINK IT'S SIX OTHER OVERLAY DISTRICTS.
I THINK IT'S AROUND SEVEN TOTAL, INCLUDING I 30, THE I 35 OVERLAY.
[00:15:01]
WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS OFFHAND ARE JUST EMPTY SHELLS WHEN IT COMES TO STANDARDS IN IT.THEY EXIST, BUT THAT'S ALL IT IS.
IT DOES GIVE US A MINOR LEG UP IN NEGOTIATING TO SAY, HEY, THE PLAYING AND ZONING COMMISSION IS GONNA HAVE TO SEE THIS.
YOU HAVE TO DO A C U P EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NOTHING BUILT INTO IT.
SO THAT GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH THE APPLICANT AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND IT NEEDS TO BE MORE THAN JUST A, AN R PANEL STEEL BUILDING.
UM, SO WE DO, WE DO WORK WITH THEM THERE.
IT IS A SMALL TOOL, UM, AND UH, IT'S SOMETIMES ONE EVEN INTERNALLY THAT US THE STAFF ARE LIKE, OH, I GUESS THEY HAVE A, THEY HAVE TO GO GET A C P.
AND WE'RE LIKE, WELL, SO WE START TALKING WITH THEM AND WE, WE, WE TRY TO GET THE, THE BEST WE CAN OUT OF IT.
SO, UM, SO IT JUST, IT JUST KINDA DEPENDS HOW MUCH YOU DON'T WANNA SEE, UM, FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
DO YOU WANT IT, DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE VARIETY ALONG I 35 AND THEN SECOND BANK OR THIRD TIER STUFF BACK OFF THE INTERSTATE? YOU WANT IT TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE
SO, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T GET CREATIVE WITH IT EITHER, SO IT JUST YEAH,
OH YEAH, I'D LIKE TO JUST MAKE A, A NOTE.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND, YOU KNOW, IT, IT MAY NOT BE THE BEST OVERLAY WE HAVE, BUT IT IS ONE THAT WE DO HAVE.
AND SO IF WE WERE TO AMEND IT AND THAT GOES AWAY, THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE LIKE, I WISH WE HAD THAT BACK.
UM, YOU KNOW, CUZ THEN THERE'S NO STOPPING METAL BUILDINGS.
UH, YOU KNOW, I, WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS RECENTLY WITH DEVELOPERS AND THEY WANT TO BUILD AND THEY WANT TO BUILD SHEEP BECAUSE OF THE PRICE OF THE LAND AND THEY'VE GOT THEIR PERFORMANCE.
AND SO IT, I THINK MOVING IT AWAY, IT PROBABLY DOES MORE HARM THAN GOOD.
UM, I ALSO THINK IT IS SOMEWHAT OF A BENEFIT, UM, IN THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE P TERRY'S IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.
TORCHY'S, THAT AREA IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE.
EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN BRAND THESE DAYS.
THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO KIND OF PULL IN.
BRANDS ARE ALSO BECOMING CONSIDERED ARTWORK, WHICH BECOMES A FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUE.
UM, AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE TO THINK ABOUT.
BUT HAVING THAT DOES AT LEAST LET US LOOK AT A PROJECT BECAUSE WE ALSO DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE TALKING MID EIGHTIES, UM, A-FRAME WATER BURGERS AND, AND WHERE WE START GETTING BUILDING DESIGNS THAT BECOME SO UNIQUE AND OUTTA WHACK THAT WE CAN'T REPURPOSE THOSE WHEN, IF OR WHEN THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS.
SO I THINK EVERYBODY REMEMBERS EARLY NINETIES EVERY A-FRAME WATER BURGER SET VACANT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
SO AT LEAST BY HAVING SOME STANDARDS THAT WE CAN KIND OF WORK ON, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THAT THAT HELPS LONG TERM.
IF SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES DO COME AND GO, OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE A P TERRY'S OR TORCHY'S, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE AREN'T BUSINESSES THAT, THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS THAT WE KNOW ARE GONNA HAVE THAT STICKING POWER.
SO SAME WITH THE OLD SCHOOL PIZZA HUTS, THE CLASSIC, I MEAN THE, THOSE BUILDINGS JUST DIDN'T HAVE A GOOD ADAPTIVE REUSE.
SO THIS WHILE MAY NOT BE PERFECT GIVES US A LITTLE BIT, AT LEAST TO TRY AND CLAW OUR WAY BACK.
NOW OFF OF THAT, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS.
USUALLY THAT'S OUR BIGGEST TOOL.
UM, MOST OF THE TIME IT BECOMES IN THE FORM OF WE HAVE A LOT OF DENSITY, WE'RE ONLY AVERAGING FOUR FIVE PER ACRE.
AND SO THAT BECOMES OUR BIG TOOL TO SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO DO THIS, UH, WILL SAID THREE 80 AGREEMENTS.
UH, A LOT OF TIMES SOME OF THESE BIG DEVELOPMENTS, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN MASTER PLANS, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN DEED RESTRICTIONS, SO THEY WON'T EVEN SELL TO SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT GONNA MEET THEIR DESIGN CRITERIA.
SO I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF TOOLS THAT, THAT WE CAN USE.
UM, I I LIKE TO USE IT AS, YOU KNOW, YOUR TOOLBOX DOESN'T JUST HAVE ONE HAMMER.
THERE'S SEVERAL TYPES OF HAMMERS IN THAT THING.
YOU KNOW, YOU GOT YOUR SHEET ROCK HAMMER, YOU GOT YOUR BALL PEN HAMMER, YOU GOT YOUR ROOFING HAMMER, YOU GOT YOUR TIN HAMMER.
I MEAN, SO WE CAN, WE CAN, WE CAN DO IT A COUPLE OF WAYS, BUT WE DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT AMENDING IT AND POSSIBLY LOSING THAT TOOL COMMISSION.
HARKIN, THANK YOU FOR THOSE COMMENTS.
UM, I TEND TO BE IN FAVOR OF KEEPING THE OVERLAY AND ENCOURAGING ITS APPLICATION MORE.
UM, I'VE DONE A LOT OF DRIVING IN THIS LAST WEEK, UM, UP AND DOWN 35 AND THEN OUT TOWARDS THE HILL COUNTRY.
AND ONE THING I NOTICED WHEN I'M ON 35 BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, AUSTIN AND
[00:20:01]
SAN ANTONIO, IT'S A LOT OF THE SAME, IT'S THE SAME KIND OF RESTAURANTS YOU DRIVE 20, 30 MINUTES, YOU GET TO KIND OF THE SAME CLUSTER OF THINGS.AND WE DO HAVE SOME GREAT DIFFERENTIATING THINGS IN KYLE NOW, WHICH I HOPE WE HAVE MORE OF.
BUT I THINK, UM, IF I'M A COMMUTER, I WOULD ACTUALLY BE MORE INTERESTED IN A, IN A COMMUNITY THAT HAD A REAL SENSE OF PLACE AND COHESION IN THEIR STYLES, I'D WONDER, HMM, WHAT IS THIS PLACE? I WANNA GO THERE AND CHECK IT OUT VERSUS SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE EVERYWHERE ELSE THAT I'VE SEEN MY WHOLE LIFE.
UM, AND I, I NOTICE THAT CONTRAST WHEN I'M DRIVING THROUGH, UM, YOU KNOW, WIMBERLEY OR DRIPPING SPRINGS OR SOMETHING VERSUS DRIVING THROUGH THE HIGHWAY TOWNS ON 35.
SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE US TO, UM, TRY TO ENCOURAGE IT.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE US TO ENCOURAGE IT WHERE WE CAN.
UM, I THINK IT'S A, A REAL ADVANTAGE FOR US TO HAVE THAT IN PLACE.
SO, UH, I'M VERY MUCH ON THE RED BRICK WHITE WHITESTONE.
UM, IT'S VERY SHOPPING, MALL LOOKING STRIP MALL LOOKING.
AND, AND I, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I GOT FROM WHAT YOU WERE SAYING IS WE DON'T WANT TO DO AWAY WITH MASONRY.
SO WE HAVE THAT ABILITY TO SAY, OKAY, IF YOU CAN'T DO YOUR RED BRICK WHITE STONE, LET'S DO THIS INSTEAD.
SO I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO, TO DO.
UM, NOT, NOT HAMSTRING OURSELVES AND SAY WHITE, UH, WHITE STONE AND, AND RED BRICK.
AND SECONDLY, ARE, ARE THE STAFF LOOKING FOR A MOTION? WHAT ARE Y'ALL LOOKING FOR HERE? I, I WOULD SAY YES.
UM, IF IT WAS MORE OF A CONSISTENT CONVERSATION ACROSS THE BOARD FOR PREFERENCES, I THINK IT'D BE PRETTY EASY DIRECTION WITHOUT ACTUALLY STATING IT.
BUT IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T MIND, WELL, I THINK, I THINK WE'RE IN AGREEMENT THAT WE SHOULD KEEP IT ON THE STAFF REPORT EITHER WAY THAT I BELIEVE WE, WE CAN'T AGREE ON.
SO I GUESS WE CAN DO THIS IN TWO SEPARATE PIECES SINCE IT'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS THAT I SUGGESTED WE TALK ABOUT.
FIRST, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE KEEP THE, THAT WE KEEP THE STAFF REPORT TO TELLING US IF IT DOES OR DOES NOT MEET THESE STANDARDS IN THE I THREE FEBRUARY 2ND.
IS THAT MOTION CLEAR? OKAY, GOOD.
UM, ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT MOTION? ALL THOSE FAVORS SAY AYE.
OKAY, NOW THERE IS THE OTHER ITEM AS TO IF WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE NOW I THINK I WOULD ALSO SAY WE ALL AGREE THAT WE DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THE CODE.
YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE WANT THAT TO STAY THE SAME.
THE QUESTION IS HOW, HOW FAR DO WE, UH, RECOMMEND HOW FAR DO WE ENCOURAGE BUSINESSES TO, UM, MEET THESE STANDARDS? AND THAT IS A HARD ITEM TO MOTION BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S A BIT MORE OF A ART THAN A SCIENCE.
UM, BUT IF ANYONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION YES, VICE SIR CHASE, I'LL TAKE A CRACK AT IT.
UH, A MOTION THAT WE CONTINUE TO, UM, ENCOURAGE AND ENFORCE, WHAT IS IT? FORESIGHTED MASONRY, CURRENTLY FORESIGHTED MASONRY, UH, THROUGHOUT THE I FIVE OVERLAY WITH THE MOTION.
OH, SOMEONE HAS TO SECOND THE MOTION FIRST.
IS THERE A SECOND? I, I I WILL SECOND THAT MOTION.
UH, I MOVE THAT WE AMEND THE MAIN MOTION TO INCLUDE THE WORDS, UH, DIRECT STAFF TO DO THAT ITEM, UH, FOR THE PURPOSES OF HOW OUR BODY WORKS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
AS A QUESTION, DO YOU MEAN DETERMINE WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE TO, TO ENFORCE THE RED BRICK AND LO WHITE LIMESTONE OR, SO IF, IF THE MAIN MOTION IS TO CONTINUE TO ENFORCE, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THAT POWER AS THE BODY, BUT WE CAN DIRECT STAFF TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE WITHIN OUR PURVIEW TO DO THE CODE IN ITSELF.
THE AUTHOR FIVE OVERLAY GIVES YOU THE AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE
[00:25:01]
THE MASONRY.THAT IS, THAT IS Y'ALL'S POWER WE STAFF BRINGS IT TO Y'ALL WHEN WE FEEL THAT IT MEETS THE SPIRIT AND THE CODE OF THE I 35 OVERLAY FOR Y'ALL TO CONSIDER.
AND, AND I WOULD LIKE TO EXPAND ON THAT.
SO YOU, YOU DO HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.
UM, IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT, THAT YOU'RE SEEING THAT COME IN AND YOU'RE NOT HAPPY WITH, UM, REGARDLESS OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, YOU, YOU CAN RECOMMEND DENIAL.
UM, YOU CAN, YOU CAN CITE, HEY, WE DON'T, WE DON'T LIKE THIS LOOK.
UM, WE THINK THIS IS TO ANY TOWN USA OR WE, WE DON'T LIKE THIS DESIGN.
I MEAN, YOU DO HAVE SOME, SOME LATITUDE THERE.
SO, UM, I WOULD SAY IF, IF, IF THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS YOU LIKE OR DON'T LIKE ABOUT THE CODE THAT, THAT YOU WANT TO SEND US AND SAY, OKAY, HEY, WE'RE OKAY WITH THE MASONRY, MAYBE NOT THE COLOR PALETTE.
OR, OR, OR MAYBE WE DON'T LIKE THE SUCH CRAZY SIGNS MM-HMM.
WE CAN KIND OF PREP THEM FOR, HEY, THIS, THIS COMMISSION'S NOT GONNA LIKE A CERTAIN THING OR THIS COMMISSION IS LOOKING FOR ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT THESE MINIMUM STANDARDS ARE AND WE CAN RELAY THAT.
BUT, BUT YOU DO HAVE THAT AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE THAT.
SO I DON'T THINK THE MOTION WOULD NEED TO AMEND IT TO, TO DIRECT STAFF.
CAUSE I THINK THAT IS YOUR PURVIEW.
DO YOU, LET'S DRAW THE MOTION.
UM, SO WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION, UM, ABOUT THE FOUR-SIDED MASONRY.
UM, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT MOTION? CAN UH, CAN YOU RESTATE THE MOTION PLEASE? SOMEONE READ IT BACK.
LET'S MAKE HERE, SO THIS MOTION SPOKE ABOUT THE MASONRY DID NOT SPEAK ABOUT COLOR.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE MOTION IS FOR.
OH, I, I BELIEVE I ALREADY SECONDED IT.
YES, IT WAS THE AMENDMENT THAT DIDN'T GET SECONDED, BUT THAT WAS WITHDRAWN.
SO JUST TO, TO CLARIFY, IF WE ARE, UM, VOTING ON THIS MOTION ABOUT THE MASONRY, DOES THAT MEAN WE ARE ABANDONING ANY CONCERNS OF COLOR OR WE'RE JUST NO, UM, FORMALIZING OUR SUPPORT FOR THE MASONRY? YOU CAN AFTER THIS MOTION, WELL ONE, YOU CAN AMEND THIS MOTION TO ALSO INCLUDE COLOR OR THIS MOTION CAN PASS OR FAIL AND THEN YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENT MOTION ABOUT COLOR SPECIFIC.
UH, IS THAT CORRECT? DOES THAT YOU ALL AGREE WITH ME? SO THIS MOTION IS ABOUT MASONRY.
YOU CAN MOVE TO MOTION, YOU CAN MOVE TO AMEND THE MOTION TO ALSO INCLUDE COLOR.
OR WE CAN COMPLETE THIS MOTION THEN START A NEW ONE IF YOU WOULD, IF YOU WOULD LIKE.
UH, FOR THE, JUST SO WE HAVE IT ON THE RECORD, I JUST WANT TO ASK WHAT THE INTENT OF THE MOTION IS TO TAKE COLOR OUT OF IT.
AND THAT WOULD NOT LOCK US INTO FUTURE DECISIONS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
I MEAN, IF I MAY, I MEAN THIS IS PRETTY SIMPLE.
UM, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO DO WHAT WE'RE WE'VE BEEN DOING AND WHAT THE CODE SAYS BECAUSE IF WE TRY AND CHANGE IT, WE, WE KIND OF HAMSTRING OURSELVES, BUT MAYBE DO A BETTER JOB OF TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO, TO KIND OF SEE Y'ALL SIDE.
UM, I, I I THINK IF WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT WE JUST WANT BETTER PROJECTS THEN, THEN THAT'S REALLY THE DIRECTION FOR STAFF.
I THINK AT FIRST WE WERE ASKING FOR THE MOTION CUZ WE WERE KIND OF A LITTLE BIT HERE AND THERE, BUT I THINK AFTER THE DISCUSSION WE'RE KIND OF UNDERSTANDING THAT OUR HANDS ARE TIED A LITTLE BIT ON THIS AS FAR AS COLOR AND, AND WHAT WE DO.
SO, UM, UN UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL WANT TO SEE DIFFERENT, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY IT'S, IT'S MORE OF JUST KIND OF KEEP, KEEP THE STATUS QUO.
I KNOW THAT'S NOT AN ANSWER EVERYBODY LIKES HEARING, BUT IT, IT IS UNFORTUNATELY THE REALITY OF THIS, THIS ORDINANCE AND, AND WHAT STATE HAS KIND OF GIVE GIVEN TO CITIES.
BUT WELL I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF THE MOTION.
THE MOTION IS WORDED A SPECIFIC WAY.
SO WHEN IT THEN DOES GET MOVED FORWARD, IT WILL NOT, IT
[00:30:01]
IT WOULD NOT AFFECT COLOR, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR OR AGAINST SO MUCH.IT WOULD BE ABOUT THE MASONRY AND THEN, UM, IF AFTER SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION ABOUT COLOR ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WE ABSOLUTELY CAN.
BUT THAT'S WHAT THIS MOTION WOULD DO.
YEAH, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY I THINK IT'S A GOOD BASELINE WHAT WE HAVE THERE.
LIKE CAN, I JUST DON'T, DON'T TOUCH IT, JUST LEAVE IT ALONE AND THEN YOU JUST WORK, WORK FROM THERE.
YOU HAVE A GOOD BASELINE, JUST CONTINUE TO WORK.
SOME PEOPLE MAY GO WITH IT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ENFORCE 'EM TO DO SO MUCH BUT THEN YOU CAN'T CUZ THEY CAN SAY, NO WE DON'T WANT THAT.
YEAH, IT'S A GOOD BASELINE AS IS.
AND YES, AND, AND WE DO HAVE THE I OVER I 35 OVERLAY.
WE DO MAKE THIS DECISION IF WE FEEL IT MEETS THE HEART OR THE INTENT OF IF IT MEETS THOSE STANDARDS.
AND SO IF WE FEEL IT IS NOT LIVING UP TO THAT BASED ON COLOR, BASED ON OTHER THINGS, WE CAN ABSOLUTELY MAKE THAT DECISION PER ITEM WHEN THEY DO COME TO US.
BUT WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MOTION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
WERE THERE ANY OTHER MOTIONS WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE ABOUT THE I 35 OVERLAY AT THIS TIME? OKAY THEN, UH, WE WE'RE GONNA MOVE OVER TO THE MINIMUM LOT SIZES STILL ON ITEM SIX A.
UH, IS THERE ANYTHING STAFF WOULD LIKE TO SAY? I, I'VE GOT A FEW THINGS BUT I'LL LET YOU GUYS GO FIRST.
I WANT TO HEAR WHAT Y'ALL HAVE TO SAY CUZ I'M CURIOUS WHERE THIS DISCUSSION IS GOING CUZ THIS, I I REALLY DON'T KNOW A ABSOLUTELY THANK YOU.
UH, YES, THIS HAS BEEN AN ITEM THAT I'D THAT UH, UM, I DID WANT TO SEE.
UM, SO WHEN, WHEN I SPEAK OF LOT SIZES, MINIMUM LOT SIZES, I'M NOT, I WASN'T NECESSARILY SPEAKING OF R ONE ONE, R ONE TWO, R ONE 13, THOSE HAVE MINIMUM LOT SIZES AND THAT IS WHAT DIFFERENTIATES THEM FROM EACH OTHER.
WHAT MY CONCERN WAS WITH MINIMUM LOT SIZES IS IN SOME OF OUR OTHER ZONING TYPES, M X D, YOU HAVE A MINIMUM LOT SIZE OF TWO ACRES.
UH, R THREE THREE MINIMUM LOT SIZE OF 12,000 SQUARE FEET PLUS 1000 SQUARE FEET FOR EACH ADDITION FOR EACH RESIDENTIAL UNIT.
UH, COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL MINIMUM LOT SIZE 8,000 SQUARE FEET OFFICE, INDUSTRIAL MINIMUM LOT SIZE ONE ACRE.
THESE ARE THE, THESE ARE SOME, THERE MIGHT BE MORE FOR SOME OTHER ZONINGS.
AND SO WE HAVE THESE REQUIREMENTS.
ALONG WITH THESE REQUIREMENTS.
WE ALSO HAVE MINIMUM SETBACK REQUIREMENTS.
WE HAVE IMPERVIOUS COVER, UM, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, MAXIMUM IMPERVIOUS COVER THAT THEY MAY HAVE IN THAT PARTICULAR ZONING.
WE HAVE UH, MINIMUM UNIT SIZE.
SO WITH THINGS LIKE R 33, A UNIT, UNIT SIZE MUST BE A CERTAIN SIZE.
AND SO WHAT MY THOUGHT IS THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE IN THESE SITUATIONS IS UNNECESSARY.
THE OTHER, WE ALREADY HAVE THOSE OTHER THINGS IN PLACE.
WE HAVE THE MINIMUM SETBACKS, THE IMPERVIOUS COVER MINIMUM UNIT SIZE, AND UH, THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE I BELIEVE COULD BE ARBITRARY IN MANY SITUATIONS.
WHEN VIRGINITY CAME AND SPOKE TO US ABOUT SOME OF THE BEST LOTS IN OUR CITY FOR, UM, CITY REVENUE PER BUILD, PULP, BUILDABLE ACRE, THEY WERE OFTENTIMES SMALLER LOT SIZES.
AND SO WHILE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THESE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE, THE MINIMUM SETBACKS AND PERVIS COVER, UH, YOU KNOW, UNIT SIZE, THE ACTUAL MINIMUM LOT SIZE CAN BE ARBITRARY AND MAKE A LOT LARGER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE FOR A SPECIFIC PURPOSE.
SO WHEN SOMEONE COMES AND ASKS, I WOULD LIKE TO, I WOULD LIKE TO REZONE THIS PIECE OF LAND FROM WHEREVER IT IS CURRENTLY TO M X D, IT WILL HAVE TO MEET CERTAIN THINGS WHEN THEY BUILD, BUT DOES IT HAVE TO MEET A CERTAIN SIZE JUST TO BE CALLED MX D? THAT IS A QUESTION THAT I'VE HAD THAT I THINK WE MIGHT WANT TO EVALUATE.
SO IT'S STAFF'S KIND OF POSITION ON THIS CUZ UM, I'M THINKING OF LIKE THIS CORNER LOT RIGHT HERE, RIGHT? THAT CITY JUST PURCHASED AND SAY WE SELL IT TO A DEVELOPER THAT WANTS TO DO M X D THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE RIGHT FOR MXD.
[00:35:01]
GO THERE? UH, I NO RETAIL OBVIOUSLY, YADA YADA, BUT ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE AN ISSUE ON THEY COMING IN MM-HMM.WHEN DISCUSSING UTILITIES, INFRASTRUCTURE STREETS, UH, IT'S NOT SO MUCH CENTERED ON OTHER ASPECTS THAT YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE.
SO NORMALLY YOUR LOT SIZES ARE BASED ON WHAT KIND OF USES ARE GONNA GO IN THERE.
UM, SO WHEN YOU PLA YOU'RE GUARANTEED TWO THINGS.
YOU'RE GUARANTEED ACCESS AND YOU'RE GUARANTEED UTILITIES.
UM, I HAVE BEEN IN COMMUNITIES WHERE MINIMUM LOT SIZES DO NOT EXIST IN COMMERCIAL AREAS.
AND THEY'RE LIKE WITH ANYTHING PROS AND CONS.
UM, THE PRO IS, IS YOU'RE NOT HAMSTRUNG.
YOU'RE NOT IN PIGEONHOLED INTO SOMETHING.
UM, AT THE SECOND TIME, AT THE SECOND INSTANCE, SOME, SOME FOLKS THAT, THAT HAVE LAND THAT WANT TO DEVELOP DON'T CARE ABOUT LONG TERM, DON'T CARE ABOUT PLANNING, DON'T THEY JUST WANT TO PARDON OFF SOME LOTS.
AND SO YOU DO END UP, SOMETIMES YOU CAN, I'VE SEEN PEOPLE PLOT OFF A LOT THINKING THEY'RE GONNA SELL 10 LOTS AND THEY SELL ZERO BECAUSE THEY, THEY'RE NOT WIDE ENOUGH TO MEET ANYTHING.
UM, SO YOU DO HAVE MINIMUM SETBACKS.
THOSE ARE GONNA DICTATE YOUR MINIMUM LOT SIZES FOR THE MOST PART FOR FRONTAGE.
I MEAN IF YOU HAVE A FIVE FOOT SETBACK, YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW YOU CAN'T HAVE A LOT THAT'S ONLY 15 FEET WIDE.
UM, SO IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE LOOK AT THAT.
UM, I THINK IF, IF THE DIRECTION FROM THIS BODY IS TO, TO ADJUST THOSE ACCORDINGLY, I THINK WE CAN DO THAT.
UM, I I WOULD CAUTION, AGAIN, I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND GETTING RID OF THEM IN IN ANY WAY JUST BECAUSE SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, MXD IS A, A VERTICAL MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, IT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER INTENSITY.
THAT'S WHY IT DOES HAVE THOSE HIGHER LOT SIZES CUZ YOU'RE JUST GONNA NEED THAT MINIMUM TO MAKE IT WORK.
WHAT WE DON'T WANT ARE, UM, LOOK LIKE A COMMUNITY LIKE MARBLE FALLS.
UM, I I, I LOVE MARBLE FALLS, BUT IT IS ONE GIANT CURB CUT FROM THE NORTH END OF TOWN TO THE SOUTH END OF TOWN.
THAT'S BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE MINIMUM LOT SIZES.
AND SO EVERY TIME YOU SUBDIVIDE TO GET THAT STREET FRONTAGE, WHETHER IT'S 15 FEET CUZ YOU'RE DOING A LITTLE STRIP CENTER AND YOU'RE GONNA CONDO REGIME THAT OUT MM-HMM.
AND, AND WHEN I SAY LITERAL OPEN CURB, YOU WON'T SEE MANY CURVES ON THAT STRETCH OF, OF UM, 2 81.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO CONSIDER, ESPECIALLY AREA ON VETERANS DRIVE, THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
SOME OF THESE OLDER BUILDINGS WHERE THEY USED TO BUILD COMMON WALL, UM, YOU CAN HAVE THOSE TIGHT, NARROW KIND OF SHOTGUN STYLE BUILDINGS.
SO IT MAYBE IT MAKES SENSE FOR THERE.
SO IF IF THE DIRECTION IS TO LOWER TO KIND OF FIT MORE IN VERDI'S VERDI'S VISION, UM, THEN THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL PROBABLY TACKLE NATURALLY JUST BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA BE OUR NEXT STEP.
UM, KIND OF ONCE WE WRAP UP THEIR, THEIR COMP PLAN IS OKAY, WE'VE GOT THIS PLAN NOW HOW DO WE EXECUTE IT? AND ONE OF THOSE WILL BE NO MORE CURVE, LINEAR STREETS, SMALLER LOT SIZES.
I MEAN HOW DO WE GET TO THOSE? SO, UM, I THINK IT'D BE GOOD TO PROBABLY PROVIDE STAFF WITH SOME FOCUS ON, UM, PICK A COUPLE OF ZONING DISTRICTS THAT WE WANT TO TOUCH ON FIRST THAT WE CAN LOOK AT PLAY WITH, KIND OF TEST IT OUT TO SAY, OKAY, AT 50 FEET WE BECOME A GIANT CURB CUT, BUT AT 75 WE CAN ENCOURAGE CROSS ACCESS THAT MAKES A LITTLE BIT MORE SENSE.
UM, BUT SOME OF THAT'S ALSO DRIVEN BY HOW YOU GET YOUR SEPTIC, HOW YOU GET YOUR SEWER.
UM, SO WE CAN'T REALLY LOSE ALL OF THEM CUZ IF YOU'RE ON SEPTIC, THE STATE HAS A MINIMUM LOT SIZE THAT YOU HAVE TO MEET IN FIELD RULES.
SO, UM, WE'LL JUST NEED SOME DIRECTION ON WHAT ARE THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS WE WANT TO ANALYZE AND, AND WHETHER WE WANT TO GO UP OR DOWN FIVE SEARCHES.
UM, AND I KNOW THERE'S PARKING REQUIREMENTS, ALL OF THAT, THAT THAT'S INVOLVED WITH THAT.
IF I CAN, UH, IF THE CHAIR'S WILLING, UM, I'D RECOMMEND THAT THAT STAFF KIND OF GO BACK BASED ON, ON ON, UM, THOSE EXAMPLES.
VERITY, VERITY, VERITY, THERE YOU GO.
UH, THOSE PEOPLE
UM, AND BRING THAT BACK FOR, FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION CUZ I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME, SOME INFORMATION AS WELL KIND OF BACKING UP WHETHER IT'S A A GOOD DECISION.
[00:40:01]
SIZES CAN HAMSTRING US, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT ALSO CAN PROTECT US, UH, IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS.PARKING BEING ONE OF THOSE JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, UM, WHILE I'M ASSUMING M X D PROBABLY REQUIRES SOME OF THAT, THAT THAT TWO ACRES MIGHT BE A LITTLE TOO BIG FOR THAT DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND OVER UNIT, ET CETERA.
UM, BUT THAT WOULD BE MY MY RECOMMENDATION.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? I JUST, UH, HAD A QUESTION FOR STAFF.
HAVE YOU, HAVE THERE BEEN CERTAIN BUSINESSES THAT HAVE ASKED FOR REZONING BECAUSE THE LOT SIZES ARE TOO LARGE AND IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S RESTRICTING GROWTH OR RESTRICTING BUSINESS COMING IN IN YOUR ASSESSMENT? IT, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S NOT RESTRICTING IT PER SE.
UM, THE, THE PEOPLE THAT WANT SMALLER LOT SIZES, TYPICALLY THE GROUPS ARE USUALLY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL BUILDERS.
UM, WE, WE HAVE THE RESIDENTIAL STYLE GUIDING PLACE THAT SAYS ANY SINGLE FAMILY OR DUPLEX ZONING THAT'S LESS THAN 50 FEET WIDE HAS TO BE ALLEY LOADED.
SO WE, WE, WE NULLIFY THAT CURB CUT ISSUE, IF YOU WILL.
UM, AND IT ACTUALLY MAKES THAT STREET SCAPE SAFER FROM UH, WHERE THE, WHERE THE SIDEWALK INTERSECTS WITH THE DRIVEWAY.
CUZ IT DOESN'T AT THAT POINT YOU, YOU TAKE IT OFF THE ALLEY.
UM, WHEN IT COMES TO COMMERCIAL, THERE'S ONLY, IT, IT IS SOMETHING WE DO CONSIDER IF THERE'S A MINIMUM LOT AREA REQUIRED FOR A CERTAIN ZONING DISTRICT OR A MAXIMUM LOT AREA.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT, UH, EARLIER THIS YEAR, GOVERNMENT RECOMMENDED APPROVAL AND COUNCIL DID APPROVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL ZONING DOWN AT HIGHWAY 21 ADJACENT TO THE GAS STATION THERE.
UM, PARTIALLY BECAUSE IN THE COMPLAINT, AS IT CURRENTLY IS WRITTEN, YOU CAN ONLY HAVE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DOWN THERE CUZ THERE IS NO WASTE WATER COMING ANYTIME SOON AT THAT TIME.
BUT NOW THAT'S NOT GONNA BE THE CASE ANYMORE.
UM, AND SO IN THAT CASE, NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL WAS LIMITED INTENTIONALLY TO BE A MAXIMUM AGGREGATE OF ONE ACRE FOR THOSE ZONINGS IN A CERTAIN AREA BECAUSE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE DEAD CENTER OR REALLY CLOSE TO THE MIDDLE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD, AN ACTUAL SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOU GOT THE LITTLE CORNER STORE, MAYBE IT HAS A, A RESIDENTIAL ARCHITECTURE DESIGN OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
AND SO YOU DIDN'T WANT, YOU WANTED TO BE WITHIN SCALE OF THE OTHER, UH, RESIDENTIAL LOTS AND, AND HOMES AROUND IT.
SO, UM, BUT IT IS AN ASPECT WE DO KEEP IN MIND WHEN SOMEONE'S REQUESTING A REZONING FOR WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
SO WE DO HAVE A, WE DO HAVE A, A HANDFUL OF OPTIONS WHEN YOU, FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEONE WANTS TO DO AN OFFICE, WE HAVE, YOU CAN DO NEIGHBOR, COMMERCIAL COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL RETAIL SERVICES OR OI.
SO, UH, A BIG CHUNK OF THAT IS THE COMP PLAN THAT WE LOOK AT.
AND SOME OF IT'S ALSO, OKAY, HOW MUCH LAND DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE? UM, AND THAT THAT'S A, THAT ALSO LIMITS IT AS WELL.
SO IF IT'S, IF WE START LOOKING INTO THIS AND IT'S APPROPRIATE THAT WE CAN WE ADJUST OUR PROPOSED ADJUSTMENTS TO THE CODE ACCORDINGLY, SOMETHING THAT'S SEEMS USABLE AND FAIR AND NOT ARBITRARY AND SEEMS REASONABLE.
AND, AND I WANNA CLARIFY, I'M NOT SPEAKING ABOUT CHANGING THE LOT SIZES FOR INDIVIDUAL PLOTS IN AN R ONE 11, R ONE TWO, R ONE 13 AREA.
THE, THE, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE, THE HOUSE, YOU KNOW HOW, HOW THE 50 FEET HAS TO BE, THAT THAT ABSOLUTELY.
UH, UH, UH, UM, I'M THINKING ABOUT THE, THE ENTIRE UNIT ITSELF.
YOU KNOW, WHEN SOMEONE COMES AND ASKS FOR A ZONING CHANGE, I WANT TO CHANGE FROM AGRICULTURE TO MX D BUT I, BUT IT'S NOT QUITE TWO ACRES SO I CAN'T DO THAT.
ARE YOU LOOKING FOR COMMERCIAL SLASH COMMERCIAL SCALE DEVELOPMENT? MORE OF A, MORE OF A, NOT SO MUCH SINGLE FAMILY OR DUPLEX, BUT HIGHER INTENSITY USES AND COMMERCIAL LEVEL STUFF.
UH, UM, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY R THREE THREE RIGHT.
BUT YES, THIS WAS MOSTLY THE ONES I LISTED WERE THE ONES I WAS MOSTLY LOOKING AT MX D R 33 COMMUNITY, COMMERCIAL, UM, OFFICE, UH, OFFICE.
WHAT'S THE I IN OI INSTITUTIONAL OFFICE? INSTITUTIONAL.
UM, AND, AND UM, YES, THERE MAY BE SOME OTHERS LIKE THAT.
I DIDN'T SEE ONE FOR NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL, BUT IF THERE IS ONE THAT ONE SHOULD BE ADDRESSED AS WELL.
AND SO YES, I AGREE THIS WOULD BE MOSTLY, UM, THOSE THINGS.
BUT M X D AND R THREE THREE WOULD BE THE, WOULD BE THE TWO THAT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE LIVING UNITS.
AND AGAIN, THE, THE UNITS THEMSELVES, I WOULD NOT SAY THEY SHOULD BE SMALLER.
BUT THE ACTUAL, TO BE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO, UH, MAKE A PLOT OF LAND THAT ZONING NOW M X D R 33, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M CONSIDERING.
THERE MIGHT ACTUALLY BE SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT, AND I'M ABOUT TO OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS WITH A STATEMENT KNOWINGLY, UM, TO
[00:45:01]
PUT SQUARE FOOTAGE LIMITS ON RESIDENTIAL UNIT SIZES AND MULTIFAMILY.I DON'T KNOW HOW ARBITRARY THAT IS OR NOT, BUT SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TOO OFTEN.
UM, CUZ USUALLY THE MARKET DICTATES AND IT'S AROUND THAT, BUT EITHER WE NAILED IT REALLY WELL WHENEVER WE DRAFTED THE CODE IN 2003 SOMEHOW FOR SETTING THOSE
BUT UM, DO THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, UM, ARE WE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF PLUM CREEK OR ARE WE LOOKING AT PLUM CREEK ALSO BECAUSE WE GOTTA, WE NEED TO BE C CAREFUL WITH THAT TOO.
I DON'T, I I DON'T KNOW THAT CODE WELL ENOUGH.
I'VE BEEN, I'VE BEEN READING THE CODE FOR THE NON OKAY.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE CODE, THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD START ANYWAY.
UM, SO YEAH, THAT, THAT IS MY, THAT, YES, THAT IS MY THOUGHT WITH THESE TO, UM, I MEAN I I I STILL AM UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT FOR THESE ZONINGS THAT THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, THE IMPERVIOUS COVER, THE MINIMUM UNIT SIZES WILL DICTATE, UH, THE, UH, UM, HOW MANY PARKING SPACES THEY NEED WILL DICTATE THE SIZE OF THE LOT.
UM, AND THAT THESE MINIMUM LOT SIZES ARE NOT NECESSARY.
BUT WE CAN START WITH REEVALUATING IF WE CAN, UH, JUST LOWER THE REQUIREMENTS OR, OR THE MINIMUM FOR THEM.
UM, THE, THE, UH, THAT IS MY TAKE ON THIS.
I THINK IT'S ALL, UM, AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, SO MM-HMM.
UM, THERE'S A LOT OF WHAT IF SCENARIOS, A LOT OF THINGS TO LOOK AT ON, ON MULTIPLE ZONING DISTRICTS.
UM, I WOULD, I WOULD RECOMMEND IT SOUNDS LIKE MXD IS PROBABLY THE, THE ONE THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED THE MOST.
WE CAN TEST THAT ONE, BRING IT BACK TO YOU AND SAY, OKAY, AT THIS MINIMUM LOT SIZE, THIS STREET SCAPE WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS AT THIS MINIMUM.
SO JUST SO WE CAN KIND OF SEE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO PUT A, A BUNCH OF APPLES AND ORANGES IN FRONT OF Y'ALL AND YOU'RE TRYING TO PICK WHICH ONE YOU LIKE.
I THINK IT, IT, IT'S, IF, IF IT'S OKAY WITH Y'ALL, IF Y'ALL CAN KIND OF GIVE US A LITTLE BIT DIRECTION ON WHAT ZONING DISTRICT AND, AND WHAT YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS IS, JUST SO WE CAN HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE MORE, UH, SUCCESS BRINGING BACK SOMETHING THAT THAT'LL SUITS Y'ALL'S NEEDS.
NO, UH, UM, YES, SO THAT'S FINE.
I, OUT OF THE ONES I LISTED, MXD IS THE ONE WITH THE LARGEST MINIMUM.
UM, SO I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BE A GOOD ONE TO START WITH BECAUSE IF ANY OF THEM DO CHANGE, IF ANY OF THEM WOULD BE AN ISSUE, I THINK THAT ONE MIGHT BE THE MAIN ONE.
STAFF NEED A MOTION FOR THAT CONSENSUS DIRECTION.
IS THAT ALL RIGHT? I I THINK WE CAN SENSE THE DIRECTION PRETTY WELL UNLESS THERE'S ANY OBJECTIONS TO THAT AND SPEAK UP IF THERE IS, PLEASE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? YES, SIR.
YEAH, I MEAN, I WOULD JUST SAY THE MXD WAS THE ONE THAT I WAS REALLY LOOKING AT.
UM, I CAN DEFINITELY SEE THIS IS AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO, AS WE'RE REALLY DISCUSSING WHAT THIS IS LIKE, I THINK WE'VE DEFINITELY HAD THE DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WANT TO DEFINE MXD EFFECTIVELY.
LIKE THIS COULD BE A REALLY GOOD TOOL FOR US TO HAVE AN EFFECTIVE MXD THAT GIVES US WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR VERSUS KIND OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN SOMETIMES.
[A.
Discussion only regarding Planning and Zoning Commission request for future agenda items.
]WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, UH, SEVEN, A GENERAL DISCUSSION, DISCUSSION ONLY REGARDING PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION REQUESTS FOR FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. ARE THERE ANY AGENDA ITEMS WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE ON FUTURE OR ANY ITEMS WE'D LIKE TO SEE ON FUTURE AGENDAS? THIS WOULD HELP WITH OUR, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THAT COMMERCIAL HERE.[A. Staff Report by William Atkinson, Director of Planning.]
I'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER EIGHT.STAFF REPORT EIGHT, A STAFF REPORT BY WILLIAM ATKINSON, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING.
ALL RIGHT, WILL ATKINSON, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING FOR THE RECORD.
UH, SO THE BIGGEST THING COMING UP IS, UH, AT THE NEXT MEETING ON THE 23RD, UH, TUESDAY NIGHT AT SIX 30, IT'LL BE COMBINED PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP FOR, FOR TRIP NUMBER THREE.
UM, IT'LL BE, UM, IT'LL BE SCENARIO PLANNING.
SO WHETHER WE WANT TO PURSUE THE BUSINESS AS USUAL MODEL VERSUS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE UNDER, UM, UNDER, UH, FISCAL BASED ANALYSIS.
SO THEY'RE GONNA PRESENT BOTH OF THOSE AND THAT'S GONNA COME ON AT THE TAIL END OF A TWO DAY TRIP DOWN HERE WHERE THEY'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A COUPLE OF PUBLIC OUTREACH, UH, EVENTS ON MONDAY NIGHT OR MONDAY AFTERNOON AND MONDAY EVENING, UH, THE MONDAY AFTERNOON ONE'S GONNA BE AT THE PUBLIC WORKS
[00:50:01]
TRAINING FACILITY, UH, THE BUILDING RIGHT BEHIND THE FRONT BUILDING, UM, FROM ONE TO FOUR ON MONDAY THE 22ND, AND THEN AT HERE AT, IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS FROM FIVE TO EIGHT, I BELIEVE.UM, FOR THE SECOND THING, IT'S THE SAME.
SO IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT TO ONE, UM, PLEASE COME TO THE OTHER ONE.
UM, THE GENERAL CITIZENRY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY AT EACH ONE.
THERE'S GONNA BE THREE OPTIONS FOR A DRAWING FOR A ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP TO COSTCO.
AND SO WE ARE HOPING WE'RE GONNA GENERATE A LOT OF BUZZ WITH THAT AND GET A LOT OF PEOPLE IN HERE.
SO, UM, SO THAT'S GONNA BE FUN.
UM, THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING COMING UP REALLY.
AND, UM, I'M GONNA BE ON VACATION THE FIRST HALF OF JUNE, SO, UH, KAYLA AND JASON WILL BE LEADING THE CHARGE FOR THE MEETING THAT I WON'T BE HERE.
AND I BELIEVE THAT IS EVERYTHING, SO THANK YOU.
UM, I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF THERE WAS ANY LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT LIKE AN ORDER OF DISCUSSION FOR, UH, OUR LIKE WORKSHOPS.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF THERE WAS ANY UPDATE, UH, SINCE WE'VE HAD THAT DISCUSSION, WHAT YOU'RE ALL THINKING ABOUT? OH, FOR WORK WORKSHOP ITEMS? YEAH, SO, SO THAT WAS KIND OF LIKE, KIND OF THIS.
UM, SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE GONNA TRY TO DO IS HAVE SOMETHING ON EVERY, ALMOST EVERY AGENDA MOVING FORWARD.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE DISCUSS DISCUSSION AND CONSIDER IMPOSSIBLE ACTION.
UH, PROBABLY NOT NEXT TIME SPECIFICALLY.
UM, ALTHOUGH THERE'S GONNA BE AT LEAST ONE ACTION ITEM THAT Y'ALL NEED TO, UH, YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO CONSIDER BEFORE THE ACTUAL WORKSHOP.
SO, UM, BUT, UH, BUT OTHERWISE, YEAH, IT'LL, IT'LL BE, IT'LL BE MORE OF A, AS A, AN, AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA SO WE CAN INCORPORATE IT WHETHER IT NEEDS TO BE ON THE SECOND, UH, TUESDAY OR THE FOURTH TUESDAY, JUST WHICH, WHICHEVER ONE IT GETS, GETS ON THE AGENDA FOR.
ITEM MEMBER NINE, ADJOURNMENT.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN SECOND THE MOTIONED AND SECONDED.
UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ALL OPPOSED? WE ARE ADJOURNED.