* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. EVENING THE TIME IS [00:00:01] SIX 30. [1. Call meeting to order] UM, THE, UH, I LIKE TO CALL THESE PLANNING AND ZONING WORKSHOP MEETING TO ORDER. UH, THE DATE IS TUESDAY, APRIL 26TH. CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? PRESS SNYDER PRISON. GARAH HERE IN THE CALL HERE. THANK YOU. FIVE MEMBERS PRESENT. WE HAVE A QUORUM NEXT, A CITIZEN COMMENTS AT THIS TIME. ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE, UM, WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, ARE ABLE, WE ASK THAT YOU FILL OUT A CITIZEN COMMENTS FORM THAT YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND THAT YOU LIMIT YOUR TIME TO THREE MINUTES. THERE'S ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK I'M OPENING CITIZEN COMMENTS. NOW SEEING NONE. I WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE CITIZEN COMMENTS AND COMMENTS IS NOW CLOSED. I DON'T REMEMBER FOR [4.B. Discussion Regarding Code Amendments to the M-1, M-2 and M-3 Zoning Districts.] GENERAL DISCUSSION FOR B DISCUSSION REGARDING CODE AMENDMENTS TO THE M ONE M TWO AND M THREE ZONING DISTRICTS. MR. ATKINSON. GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. UM, BEFORE YOU, WE HAVE A REQUEST BY PATTY SNIDE OUT TO, UH, CONSIDER, UM, SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO OUR CODE RELATING TO MANUFACTURED HOMES AND RELATING TO, UM, I BELIEVE PRIMARILY FOCUSING ON HOW WE DEFINE THE FOUNDATION AND WHAT HAVE YOU. SO, UM, SHE'S BEEN ASKING HIM TO, FOR US TO CONSIDER THIS FOR A WHILE. SO WE FELT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO BRING IT FORWARD. UM, NOW I'LL SAY THIS I'M GONNA PRIMARILY DEFER TO PATTY AS SHE'S THE ONE WHO'S MOST FAMILIAR WITH THIS, UM, THIS REQUEST. SO I'M GONNA LET YOU TAKE THE FLOOR. I WOULDN'T SAY I'M AN EXPERT AT IT BY ANY MEANS. I'VE JUST PULLED THE INFORMATION. BUT, UM, I THINK THE OVERALL GOAL FOR ME IS TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY AND BUILDING STANDARD. IF IT NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR MANUFACTURED HOUSING. I THINK MANUFACTURED HOUSING IS A VERY VIABLE OPTION FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT IF THEY ARE SET ON A PERMANENT FOUNDATION, THEY CAN BE FINANCED BY FHA AND VA AND THEY ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME QUALITY AS A STICK-BUILT HOME. SO THEN YOU'VE GOT A REALLY NICE PRODUCT FOR A FAMILY THAT THEY CAN STAY IN LONGTERM. THEY'RE MORE SECURE THEIR FINANCIAL, THEY CAN REFINANCE THEM, THEY CAN GET REPAIR LOANS ON THEM. UM, WHEN YOU HAVE A PRODUCT THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY ON THAT PERMANENT FOUNDATION, THEY'RE DIFFICULT, YOU CAN'T FINANCE THEM. YOU CAN'T SELL THEM WITH A REALTOR. YOU CAN'T, UM, YEAH, IT'S HARD TO GET A LOAN ON THEM OTHER THAN PRIVATE FINANCING. SO YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET THE BEST RATES AND TERMS. SO WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IS THIS IS A VIABLE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING OPTION FOR KYLE. I THINK IT COULD BE A VALUABLE OPTION, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM CONFORM TO WHERE THE HOMEOWNERS CAN ACCESS, UM, FHA, VA FINANCING AND HAVE A, HAVE A STABLE, NICE PLACE, YOU KNOW, AND NICE NEIGHBORHOODS. SO THAT'S KIND OF MY OVERALL GOAL. AND THE IDEA IS THAT HUD IS THE, UM, THEY, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, HOUSING YEP. U S DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT IS KIND OF THE, UH, THE END ALL AND BE ALL FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. I WORKED FOR RURAL DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WAS A DIVISION OF USDA AND WE FOLLOW HUD GUIDELINES FOR OURS BECAUSE THEY'RE THE EXPERTS. THEY HAVE AN ENTIRE DIVISION THAT DOES NOTHING BUT MANUFACTURED HOUSING. SO THEY ARE, THEY THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. AND SO THEY'VE JUST COMPLETED NEW REGULATIONS, WHICH I HAVE NOT READ THROUGH, BUT IT WAS CHANGING ANYTHING IN THE GOVERNMENT TAKES YEARS. SO IT WAS YEARS IN PROCESS, BUT IT WAS DONE WITH ALL PARTIES AT THE TABLE, MEANING MANUFACTURED HOUSING DEVELOPERS AT THE TABLE, MANUFACTURERS AT THE TABLE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE KEY PEOPLE WERE AT THE TABLE SO THAT THEY COULD COME UP WITH REGULATIONS THAT REALLY WORKED FOR EVERYBODY. SO THERE, THE INTENTION IS NOT TO MAKE THEM EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE OR, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING EXTREME, BUT TO MAKE THEM DECENT, SAFE, AND SANITARY, THAT'S OUR MISSION IS DECENT, SAFE, AND SANITARY. AND SO THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT THIS FORWARD FORWARD. AND, UM, I ALSO ASKED THE STAFF, WHICH THEY DID A GREAT JOB OF PULLING THE PERMIT GUIDE FOR SAM NARCOS. AND WHAT I REALLY LIKE IS THIS, UH, THIS TIMELINE FOR MANUFACTURED HOMES THAT AUSTIN HAS AND A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WE WERE POINTING OUT, CAUSE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT IS, UM, THE DEFINITION FOR MANUFACTURED HOUSING AND ALSO IN THE DEFINITION ON THIS AUSTIN ON THIS AUSTIN ONE, WHICH IS THIS, THIS THING HERE, THIS, THIS ONE, UM, THIS ONE TALKS ABOUT THAT THE PRODUCT ITSELF, THE UNIT ITSELF COMES WITH A HUD CERTIFICATION, WHICH MEANS THAT THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT ACTUAL PART, WHETHER IT'S TWO PARTS [00:05:01] OR THREE PARTS THAT IT COMES IN HAVE MEET THE CRITERIA OF BUILDING PRACTICE AREA. AND THAT'S HPAC THAT'S, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY THAT IS BUILDING STANDARDS AS FAR AS STRUCTURALLY SOUND. SO IT MEETS A CERTAIN CRITERIA OF SUBSTANTIAL CONSTRUCTION. AND SO THAT'S WHAT AUSTIN IS USING. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD ASK ALSO. AND, UM, THEN ANOTHER PIECE IS THIS THIRD BOX HERE ON THE RIGHT ON THAT SAME PAGE, IT TALKS ABOUT AFFIRM A PERMANENT FOUNDATION AND A PERMANENT FOUNDATION IS KEY FOR FHA AND VA. AND, UH, SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE US TO CONSIDER AS WELL. AND I'D LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S, THE CITY DOES A GREAT JOB AND THEN THIS WILL ROLL DOWN TO PERMITTING AND INSPECTING AND ALL OF THAT. BUT I THINK IT COULD REALLY ELEVATE, UM, QUALITY HOUSING AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN KYLE IN MY OPINION. SO I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS. THANK YOU. UH, WELL I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS JUST, JUST TO START OFF THE CONVERSATION. UM, FIRST, COULD YOU HELP CLARIFY, YOU'VE SAID IT BEFORE, BUT CAN YOU CLARIFY FOR US AGAIN WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN M ONE M TWO AND M THREE? SURE. I WAS ACTUALLY JUST PULLING THAT UP. UH, I'LL START WITH THE THE M ONE ZONING DISTRICT IS ACTUALLY, UH, THAT ONE'S THE EASIEST ONE TO DEFINE IT IS A ZONING DISTRICT THAT, UM, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN ONLY GET IN ONE CONDITION IT'S IF YOU ARE A MANUFACTURED HOME SUBDIVISION THAT WAS APPROVED AND IS BEING BUILT OR YOU'RE UNDER CONSTRUCTION OR PART WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS IN THE COUNTY. AND THEN AT SOME POINT, THE CVA COME IN AND STARTED ANNEX IN THE PROCESS. SO YOU'RE VESTED AT A, AT A STANDARD FROM THE COUNTY AND THAT DELINEATES FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE, THAT IT'S, THAT IT'S A PROJECT THAT'S GRANDFATHERED AND COMING INTO THE CITY. SO IT DOESN'T MEET OUR CODE THE WAY NECESSARILY THE WAY WE HAVE IT IN OUR CODE. AND WHAT HAVE YOU, UM, OTHERWISE YOU CAN'T RECEIVE THEM ONE ZONING DESIGNATION. YOU CAN'T REZONE TO IT OTHERWISE AT ANOTHER TIME AFTER YOU'RE ALREADY IN THE CITY. UM, IF YOU WERE SAY YOU HAVE SOME AG ZONING AS OF THE CITY, YOU CAN'T ZONE IT ALREADY TO M ONE, UNLESS YOU WERE PART WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS WHEN YOU WERE IN THE COUNTY, GOT YOUR PERMITS FROM THE COUNTY AND WHAT HAVE YOU, UH, THE M TWO ZONING IT IS, UM, IS A PUBLIC SUBDIVISION IT'S FEE SIMPLE LOTS, JUST LIKE YOUR STANDARD RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION, BUT YOU CAN HAVE MANUFACTURED HOMES ON IT. SO YOU HAVE PUBLIC ROADS, PUBLIC WATER, WASTEWATER, UH, LOTS OF FEE SIMPLE. UM, AND WHAT HAVE YOU AND THE MP3 IS EXACT SAME WAY, EXCEPT EVERYTHING'S PRIVATE AND YOU'RE LEASING A PAD SITE FOR THE MANUFACTURED HOME. SO THE STREETS INSIDE THE SUBDIVISION ARE PRIVATE WASTEWATER, WATER'S PRIVATE, THEY ALL TIE IN AT, UH, AT ONE POINT INTO THE PUBLIC SYSTEM. UM, AND, UH, YOU CAN'T HAVE PUBLIC ROADS EXCEPT FOR LIKE YOUR PRIMARY ENTRANCE POINTS PER FIRE CODE TYING INTO IT. YOU CAN'T HAVE THE, IT CAN'T, YOU CAN'T HAVE MULTIPLE POINTS OTHERWISE TYING INTO IT HAS TO BE ITS OWN LITTLE ENCLAVE. UM, BUT THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IS THE SIMPLE VERSUS NON FEE SIMPLE LOTS. GREAT. SO THANK YOU FROM, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE. SO FOLLOWING UP ON THAT, SO THE M ONE, UM, MANUFACTURED HOME SUBDIVISION ALREADY IN PROGRESS BEING ANNEXED INTO THE CITY IN THAT SITUATION, UM, HOW RESTRICTIVE CAN WE BE IF THE PROCESS HAS ALREADY BEGUN, COULD WE THEN SAY, YOU MUST MEET X, Y, AND Z. YOU KNOW, OUR, UH, WE GOT, WE COULD CHANGE IT, BUT IF, BUT IF IT'S PART OF THE ANNEXATION BEING MOVED IN, UM, I'M NOT SURE IF ANY OF THESE CHANGES WE MIGHT MAKE NOW MIGHT BE APPLICABLE AT THEIR POINT OF THE PROCESS. NO, WE, WE, WE RE REGARDING THE , WHICH WE PUT THE ONE ON THIS TONIGHT'S AGENDA JUST FOR DISCUSSION SO WE CAN ABSOLUTELY. UM, BUT, UM, STATE LAW ALLOWS A PROJECT TO CONTINUE AT ITS GRANDFATHERING STATUS. EVEN IF IT'S ANNEXED IN THE CITY WOULD BE VERY LIKELY WE WOULD GET IN TROUBLE MUCH AND MAYBE EVEN SUED IF WE TRIED TO ADJUST FOR IT AFTER THE FACT FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS ALREADY VESTED COMING IN. NO, THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT. UM, I DO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. UM, SO CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW SOMEONE HAS SOMEONE WOULD HAVE A, UH, MANUFACTURED SUBDIVISION IN M TWO M THREE AND, AND THEY COULD CHOOSE AS CURRENTLY THEY COULD CHOOSE TO EITHER HAVE THE FIXED FOUNDATION OR, OR THEY COULD PUT THEM ON THINNER BLOCKS OR SOMETHING NOT FIXED. CORRECT. AND EITHER ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE AN OPTION, CORRECT? CORRECT. WE DON'T, AS LONG AS I I'LL SAY THIS, I AM NOT THE BUILDING OFFICIAL. SO I KNOW THEY LOOK AT IT FROM A REGULATORY [00:10:01] STANDPOINT FROM THE BUILDING CODE AND HOW IT RELATES TO MANUFACTURED HOMES. AND I DON'T KNOW TO WHAT, I DON'T KNOW ALL THE DETAILS BEHIND THAT. SO I KNOW THEY LOOKED AT IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, BUT THEY LOOK AT IT FROM A SUFFICIENT FOUNDATION PER THE BUILDING CODE, WHETHER IT'S TIED DOWN TO CINDERBLOCKS OR SOMETHING SIMILAR. RIGHT. UM, OR IT'S ON A PERMANENT FOUNDATION. SO NOW FROM A PRACTICAL PERSPECTIVE, BEING THE MP3 IS A FOR LEASE SITE. THERE'S NOT LIKELY GOING TO BE PERMANENTLY YOUR HOUSES PERMANENTLY TIED TO A FOUNDATION IN THERE, MATE, MAYBE THE, UH, IF THEY HAVE LIKE A LITTLE AMENITY CENTER, IF THEY HAVE A MANUFACTURED HOME ON THERE FOR THAT, FOR SOME REASON, BUT THAT THAT'D BE PROBABLY IT, WHEREAS FEE SIMPLE. YOU COULD GO EITHER WAY. OKAY. AND, UH, AND SINCE THEY CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN EITHER PERMANENT OR NOT THE ONES THAT WE HAVE NOW, IT SEEMS THAT THEY'RE MOSTLY CHOOSING, NOT, DO WE HAVE SUBDIVISIONS NOW THAT ARE CHOOSING TO PUT, TO PUT PERMANENT FOUNDATIONS WHEN WE'RE NOT REQUIRING THEM TO? YEAH. UM, THE, THE, I'M TRYING TO THINK IF RIGHT NOW THE TWO BIGGEST SUBDUED MANUFACTURING HOME PROJECTS THAT WE'RE REVIEWING ARE WELL, THE BIGGEST ONE PRIMARILY IS THE SECOND PHASE FOR SUNSET RIDGE OVER ON EAST F150. AND BECAUSE IT'S THE, IT'S THE, UM, IT'S THE, THE I BELIEVE, OR DID I GET THAT BACKWARDS? HOLD ON. NO, IT'S M THREE SIM THREE, UH, BECAUSE THEY'RE FOR LEASE, NONE OF THEM ARE PERMANENTLY TIED DOWN BECAUSE IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO IN, MAYBE THEY'LL RENT FOR TWO, THREE YEARS AND THEN THE MOVE THE HOUSE OUT, OR, OR WHAT HAVE YOU AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. UM, THE TENORIO SUBDIVISION, WHICH IS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF WEST CENTER STREET BETWEEN STAGECOACH CROSSING AND CENTER STREET, IT'S KIND OF TUCKED IN BETWEEN, UH, THEIR ZONED M TWO. UM, AND SO THEY COULD, UM, IF THEY SO CHOOSE WITH THE WAY OUR CODE CURRENTLY READS TO EITHER TIE IT DOWN WITH, UM, TO CINDER BLOCKS OR SOMETHING SIMILAR OR APPROPRIATE, OR THEY COULD DO A PERMANENT FOUNDATION AND IRONICALLY, NOT IRONICALLY, BUT SOME OF THE HOUSES THERE AS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THOSE, THAT'S A GENERATIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD IN THERE FREQUENTLY. AND SO A LOT OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT THEY'LL, YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEE OVER TIME, THEY'LL HAVE A 1970S ERA SINGLE-WIDE IN THERE. THEY'LL MOVE IT OUT TO MOVE INTO, UH, AN, UH, MODERN MANUFACTURING HOME, A HUD CERTIFIED ONE, PROBABLY I PRESUME, UH, OR ONE THAT MEETS THE BUILDING CODE AT LEAST. UM, AND THEN, BUT THERE'S ALSO SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THERE AS, YOU KNOW, THEIR PROSPECTS IMPROVE. LIKE THEY'LL MOVE THE HOUSE OUT AND THEY'LL BUILD A HOUSE ON SITE, WHICH WE ABSOLUTELY ALLOW, UM, ONE CONSTRUCTOR ONSITE STICK-BUILT HOUSE. SO THERE'S A, THERE'S A SCATTERING OF THAT IN THERE. UM, AND IT'S, IT'S PRETTY FLEXIBLE ACTUALLY FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, THEY STILL GOTTA MEET AS BEST AS POSSIBLE. UM, THE IMPERVIOUS COVER, WE WORK WITH THEM ON THAT, UH, THE BUILDING SETBACKS, YOU KNOW, PARKING RATIOS, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. UM, BUT RIGHT. YEAH. I GUESS MY QUESTION REALLY COMES DOWN TO ARE MOST OF THESE SUBDIVISIONS THAT COME IN MEETING THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT AND THAT'S IT, YOU KNOW, IT, IF, IF, IF IT, IF BEING ON A FIXED PERMANENT FOUNDATION IS OPTIONAL, UM, BUT IT'S ABOVE WHAT THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT IS. I, I GUESS I'M CURIOUS AS TO, IF ANYONE ACTUALLY IS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO THAT LEVEL, OR THEY PRETTY MUCH WOULD ONLY GO UP TO THAT LEVEL IF IT WAS REQUIRED THAT THEY HAD THE OPTION. RIGHT. BUT HAVE THEY BEEN TAKING THAT OPTION IS WHAT I'M ASKING THE ONES OVER THERE IN THIS SCENARIO SUBDIVISION OR IT'S NOT, NOT VERY OFTEN IT'S MOST OF THEM ARE EXISTING EVERY NOW AND THEN WE'LL GET ONE. SO I, I, I DON'T REMEMBER OFF HAND. UM, SO, UM, I WOULD, IF I WERE TO HAZARD A GUESS, I WOULD SAY NO, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE AT LEAST UPFRONT, SO CORRECT. SORRY. I'VE KIND OF TAKEN THEM BEFORE, BUT IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS QUESTIONS, PLEASE JUMP IN. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. UM, SO IF SOMEONE WAS TO BUILD A STICK BUILD HOUSE IN AN EMPTY SUBDIVISION, THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO IN FOR LIKE PROPER FOUNDATION PERMITS WITH SOIL REPORTS AND EVERYTHING TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S LIKE FOR SAFETY REASONS. UM, SO I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHY THEY, WHY WE DON'T DO THAT FOR, IN TERMS OF LIKE SAFETY LIFE SAFETY WITH, UH, MANUFACTURED HOMES. I DON'T THINK IT'S EVER BEEN CONSIDERED BEFORE. NOW. THEY DO MEET THE BUILDING CODE, THE HOMES THEMSELVES DO YES, THE MANUFACTURED HOMES AND THE TIE DOWNS [00:15:01] THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE TO MEET THE CODE. THEY DO, THEY ARE CODE COMPLIANT. THE BUILDING OFFICIAL LOOKS AT HIM NOW REQUIRING THE FOUNDATION. THE PERMANENT FOUNDATION GOES ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT. UM, AND THERE'S ADVANTAGES TO IT AS PATIO STATED IN TERMS OF X BETTER FINANCING, BUILDING EQUITY, AND WHAT HAVE YOU, AND, AND ALL THAT. BUT, UM, THIS IS PATTY'S REQUEST TO BRING THIS UP AS THE FIRST TIME IT'S BEEN CONSIDERED, HONESTLY, BECAUSE I BELIEVE, I SUSPECT GENERALLY THE, THE, HOW THE CITY VIEWS MANUFACTURED HOMES. THEY'RE MORE TEMPORARY IN NATURE CAUSE THEY'RE, THEY TEND TO BE NOT UP TO AS HIGH AS A STANDARD FROM A HOUSE THAT'S BUILT ON SITE. UM, OR AT LEAST THERE'S THAT NOTION IF I'M MAKING MONEY. UM, I DON'T KNOW ALL THE DETAILS BEHIND HIM. UM, SO, UM, IF Y'ALL THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO REQUIRE A PERMANENT FOUNDATION, THEN WE SHOULD CONSIDER THAT IF IT MAKES IT BETTER IN THE LONG RUN FOR THE RESIDENTS, I PERSONALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. UM, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE, WE CAN TALK ABOUT. SO, AND THEN IN TERMS OF, IF THE MANUFACTURER HOME IS BEING INSPECTED BY THE BUILDING INSPECTOR RIGHT NOW, THEY DON'T INSPECT THE FOUNDATION'S. THEY, THEY DO WHERE THEY'RE, WHERE THEY'RE TO MEET BUILDING CODE, WHERE THEY'RE TYING INTO THE, THROUGH THE WATER, THE WASTEWATER, HOW THEY'RE TIED DOWN TO THEIR FOUNDATIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE THE CENTER. I SAY, CINDERBLOCKS FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM MONDAY, THEY COULD, THERE COULD BE SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE ROBUST SO THAT THEY'RE USING, LIKE THEY, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL HAS TO REVIEW IT TO MAKE SURE IT'S COMPLIANT FOR THE BUILDING CODE. AND THEN THE INSPECTOR GOES OUT AND MAKE SURE IT MATCHES. UM, AND FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, BUT THERE'S NOT A REQUIREMENT THAT THEY HAVE TO BE ON A PERMANENT BE PERMANENTLY FIXED TO A FOUNDATION EITHER. BUT SO FOR STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY, LIKE WHEN THERE'S, YOU KNOW, GUSTS OF WINDS, UM, THEY DON'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE LIKE HOW THESE PERMANENT FOUNDATIONS HAVE LIKE, ARE ENGINEERED. SO WHEN THERE'S LIKE UPLIFT OR WHATEVER, THEY'RE, THEY'RE THERE TO RESIST THAT, THE ONES THAT AREN'T ON PERMANENT FOUNDATIONS, I, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. I PRESUME. SO I, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO FALL BACK TO THE BUILDING CODE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT ANSWER. UM, SO, OKAY. I THINK IT MIGHT MEAN, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA. AND THEN IN TERMS OF, THEY WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO MOVE THEM, EVEN IF THEY'RE ON A PERMANENT ENGINEERED FOUNDATION, THAT'S UP TO HUD STANDARDS BECAUSE IT SHOWS IN THE SAN MARCUS ONE THAT EVEN IF YOU ARE IN A TEMPORARY, I THINK IT WAS SAN MARCUS AT TEMPORARY COMMUNITY, WHICH I'M ASSUMING THAT'S THE ONES THAT YOU WOULD MOVE IN AND OUT. THEY STILL HAVE, UM, PERMANENT FOUNDATIONS FOR, DO THEY SEE THAT SO I GUESS, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS IF IT'S A PERMANENT FOUNDATION IN THE HOUSES FIXED TO IT, IS IT NOT MAKE THE HOUSE PERMANENTLY FIXED TO THE FOUNDATION? LIKE YOU CAN'T REMOVE IT FROM IT. RIGHT. I THOUGHT, I THOUGHT THAT'S WHY YOU COULD GET ALONE AND SUCH ON IT, BUT, BUT BECAUSE OF IT'S NO LONGER MOBILE. UM, BUT I, I COULD BE WRONG ON THAT. YEAH. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, YOU CAN TALK TO SAN MARCOS TO GET MORE INFORMATION FROM THEM, BUT IT'S JUST A MORE STABLE. UM, MAYBE NOT, HE WOULD FEEL ALONE. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT FIXED. I MEAN, IF IT'S NOT LIKE, I'M NOT SURE GOOD TO BE ALONE WITHOUT MAYBE IT'S WHEN THEY IT'S A PERMANENT FOUNDATION, THEY GET THE LOAN. MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING THAT, ALL RIGHT, THIS IS WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO SAY, YOU CAN'T MOVE. LIKE, IT'S YOUR PERMANENT HOUSE, LIKE, RIGHT. I'M SURE THAT'S AND IF THEY DECIDE, WELL, 10 YEARS LATER, HEY, WE ACTUALLY WANT TO MOVE. I DON'T KNOW. WOULD THAT CARRY OVER? I MEAN, BECAUSE PROBABLY NOT. I MEAN, YEAH. IT'S NOON. DO YOU EVER HAVE A REGULAR HOUSE? YOU KNOW, YOU CAN, I MEAN, YOU CAN JUST GET, YOU ALL WANT TO TAKE MY HOUSE, BUT I WANT TO MOVE IT ALL ACROSS THE STREET. UM, YEAH. I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, SO THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING IN, IN THE ACTUAL CONTRACT, THE SIGN THAT, ALRIGHT, THIS IS WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BE. NOW, IF YOU WANT TO MOVE, YOU HAVE TO SELL YOUR [00:20:01] HOUSE. AND THEN, YEAH. AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE FHA AND VA ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT IT'S NOT MOVING. UM, THE, THE ONES THAT I HAVE SEEN AVAILABLE ON ZILLOW AND THEY DO HAVE THEM FOR SALE ON SOLO ARE, UM, THE ONES THAT WOULD BE LIKE IN SUNSET RIDGE AND THEY ARE FOR SALE BY OWNER FINANCED BY OWNER. AND SO THEY'RE BUYING THEIR UNIT AND THEN LEASING THEIR, THEIR SPOT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR FINANCING RATES ARE THOUGH, BUT I WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T KNOW EITHER. YEAH. SO MY QUESTION IS ONE, IS IT, IS IT APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT? I THINK FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, MIND YOU, THIS IS JUST COMING FROM HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT. IT DOESN'T COME FROM ANYTHING FROM A LOGICAL PERSPECTIVE. I DON'T KNOW THE INS AND OUTS OF THE BUILDING CODE AND WHAT HAVE YOU. IT'S PROBABLY APPROPRIATE TO SOME EXTENT FROM, UH, FROM THE, THE FEE SIMPLE LOTS IN THE MTS ZONING DISTRICT. IF WE, IT COULD BE, IT COULD BE PEERS, IT COULD, IT CAN BE PIER AND BEAM. IT COULD BE SOLID SLAB OR SOMETHING IN BETWEEN WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, FROM THE BUILDING CODE. IF IT'S A PERMANENT, WHATEVER THE REQUIREMENTS ARE FOR BUILDING FOR PERMANENT FOUNDATIONS IN THE M THREE, IT'S PROBABLY NOT APPROPRIATE. I THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S A, FROM A, FROM A USE PERSPECTIVE, THERE'S LIKE, THERE'S A CLEAR DELINEATION THERE. UM, AND THE WAY THE SUBDIVISIONS ARE OPERATED. SO, UM, THAT, THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE, UM, WE CAN CONSIDER, UM, IF WE WANTED TO DISCUSS ABOUT THIS AT ANOTHER TIME, IN ADDITION, IF WE FEEL WARRANTS MORE, WE CAN ASK THE, UH, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL TO COME AND TALK TO, WHICH IS SOMETHING AS WE'RE DISCUSSING, UH, I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD HAVE REACHED OUT. SO, UM, SO, UM, IT WAS PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA. YEAH. I THINK IT WOULD JUST TO GET SOME CLARIFICATION ABOUT WHAT A PERMANENT FOUNDATION IS, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU COULD HAVE A FOUNDATION THERE AND STILL MOVE THE HOUSES, BUT THEN THE FOUNDATION WOULD BE LIKE ENGINEERING. I'M NOT, I'M NOT SURE. I'M JUST, YEAH. BUT THEN ONLY HAVE A FOUNDATION LEFT. YEAH. BUT IF YOU'RE LEASING A LOT OR WHATEVER, THEN IT WOULD BE LIKE, THIS IS WHERE, YOU KNOW, CAUSE THERE, WHEN YOU HAVE A FOUNDATION, HOW'S THEY HAVE TO DO LIKE SOIL SAMPLES AND SEE HOW FAR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, ALL THE ENGINEERING THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT. UM, YOU CAN'T JUST LIKE PUT A HOUSE ANYWHERE. SO IT SEEMS LIKE, I MEAN, THIS IS A HOUSE, THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIVING. THERE'S, YOU KNOW, ALL ABOUT LIVE LOADS AND ALL THAT STUFF, THE ROOF, EVERYTHING STILL GOES INTO IT. IT JUST IS, YOU KNOW, MANUFACTURED SOMEWHERE ELSE AND BROUGHT ONTO SITE. OKAY. SO, UM, HERE'S MY GENERAL THOUGHTS ABOUT IT. UH, TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, I, I, I PREFER TO LET THE MARKET KIND OF DICTATE THESE THINGS, BUT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU HAVE A MINIMUM BAR, THAT'S ALL YOU GET WHEN, WHEN, YOU KNOW, W WITH NON W WITH JUST A REGULAR, UM, R ONE R TWO, AND THESE OTHER DIVISIONS, YOU'LL, UH, YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF PUTTING THE GARAGE IN THE FRONT OR THE BACK, BUT WHEN YOU HAD THAT OPTION, EVERYONE PUT IT IN THE FRONT. AND, UM, W SO WHEN YOU HAVE A CERTAIN BASELINE, YEAH. PEOPLE TEND TO GO TO THAT. UM, AND, AND SO IT'S, IT'S GOOD TO REVIEW THIS. IT'S GOOD TO LOOK OVER THIS AND THINK THROUGH OUR OPTIONS, BUT I DO AGREE AT LEAST WITH THE INFORMATION WE HAVE NOW, IF WE DID WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF YOU A PERMANENT FOUNDATION FOR M TWO, AS A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL, BUT NOT FOR M ONE OR M THREE. UH, IT COULD STILL BE OPTIONAL FOR M THREE, CORRECT? IT SHOULD BE. YEAH. YEAH. WE WOULDN'T, WE WOULDN'T NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE TO M THREE. IT COULD BE THE WICKED BE UP TO THEM IN THAT CASE, JUST GIVEN THE, I'LL SAY THE MORE FLEXIBLE NATURE OF THAT TYPE OF THE PRIVATE SUBDIVISION AND YOUR IT'S BEING LEASED OUT AND WHAT HAVE YOU. SO, OKAY. AND THEN WHAT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO DO IS SEPARATE THOSE TWO ZONINGS. SO IF A NEW SUBDIVISION, A NEW MANUFACTURED HOUSING SUBDIVISION COMES IN, I WOULDN'T WANT IT TO COME IN AS M TWO AN M TWO M THREE. I WOULD WANT TO KNOW WHICH IT IS. WE WOULD, IT WOULD BE M TWO OR M THREE, NOT AN M TWO M THREE, AND WE'LL LET YOU KNOW, CORRECT IT. THEY HAVE TO CHOOSE. UM, WE WOULD, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S DISCUSSED WHEN AT THE VERY BEGINNING, WHEN A DEVELOPER WANTS TO COME TALK TO STAFF, THEY'LL SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO DO A MANUFACTURED HOME SUBDIVISION, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THEM. OKAY. ARE YOU GOING TO, IS EVERYTHING GONNA BE PRIVATE INSIDE? YOU'RE GONNA LEASE THIS ALL OUT, OR ARE YOU GOING TO, [00:25:01] IS THIS GOING TO BE FEE SIMPLE? UM, AND YOU GO FROM THERE AND THEN WE'LL BRING THE, AND IF THE COMP PLAN SUPPORTS IT AND EVERYTHING, WE'LL BRING IT FORWARD TO THE PLANNING TO DOLLARS, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FOR RECOMMENDATION VOTE. AND THEN IT WOULD JUST LIKE ANY OTHER ZONING. IT WOULD, AND DOES BOTH M TWO AND M THREE REQUIRES THAT THE LONGEST PORTION OF THE HOUSE FACED THE STREET. YEAH. THE LONG FACE OF THE HOUSE HAS TO BE PARALLEL TO THE STREET. SO NOW THE SUNSET RIDGE SUBDIVISION, THEY HAVE A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY. UH, THE FIRST PHASE OF SECTION TWO WAS PLANTED IN LIKE 2004 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND SO THOSE LOTS AND HOW THEY'RE LAUDING THE HOUSES ON THEIR, THEIR LOT. THEY'RE SLIDING THEM IN LIKE SHOTGUN HOUSES. THEY REFLECT THAT BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN'T CROSS THE PROPERTY BOUNDARIES OF THE HOUSE. AND SO THEY WERE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE THAT THEY, IT WAS ALREADY APPLIED RECORDED LOT OR SECTION, EXCUSE ME. NOW, EACH THE ONES FOLLOWING THAT, UH, PHASE TWO, B, C, AND D ARE THERE THEY'RE CODE COMPLIANT. SO THEY'RE, THEY, THEY GOT TO, THEY GOT TO BE PARALLEL. YEAH. SO IF WE, IF WE DID CHANGE M TWO AND NOT MP3, UH, I'M AFRAID OF THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF, THEN THAT, THEN WHAT WE'RE REALLY SAYING IS WE'RE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO TRY TO GO M THREE INSTEAD OF M TWO, WHICH IS NOT WHAT I WANT TO ENCOURAGE TO HAPPEN. SO WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR MANUFACTURED HOMES TO BE BUILT IN KYLE, UH, FROM A DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT. UM, IT JUST, WE, WE WE'VE GOTTEN THE SUNSET RIDGE, WHICH THERE'S A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY AND THE DEVELOPER. AND THEN THERE'S THE ONE THAT WE HAD THE, I DON'T REMEMBER IF Y'ALL REMEMBER A COUPLE OF ABOUT A YEAR OR SO BACK THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT OFFERED BB ROAD. UM, AND THEN THE ZONING THAT FOLLOWED FOR, TO REZONE TO, I THINK IT WAS M THREE, UM, JUST RIGHT NEXT TO THAT EXISTING, UM, LAKESIDE CROSSING. SO THAT ONE, UM, THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO REQUESTS THAT WE'VE REALLY HAD. UM, AND THAT ONE'S GOING TO COMPLIANCE. THEY'VE, THEY'VE, THEY'RE ABOUT TO SUBMIT A SITE PLANS FOR THAT. UM, SO, AND, AND I'VE SEEN AT LEAST AT A GLANCE, WHAT DOES IT LOOKS LIKE? AND IT'S PLOTS ARE BIG ENOUGH. THEY MEET THEIR MINIMUM STANDARDS AND IT'S GOING TO BE BIG ENOUGH FOR PARALLEL TO THE, TO THE ROAD. SO IS THAT LAKESIDE CROSSING? ARE THOSE ON PERMANENT FOUNDATION? NO, THEY'RE NOT. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A CASE WHERE IT WOULD BE AN ZONING DISTRICT. OKAY. CAUSE IT WAS, IT WAS STARTED BACK WHEN IT WAS IN THE COUNTY AND THAT WE ANNEXED IT. AND THEN I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. UM, SO M THREE IS THE PRIVATE, THAT'S WHY THERE'S THE DIFFERENT, OKAY. SO IF THERE WAS, UH, LIKE, DO WE EVER GET, UM, HOUSING SUBDIVISIONS THAT ARE ALL PRIVATE, LIKE PRIVATE ROADS PRIVATE, WE CAN, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO BE GO THROUGH ALL THE INSPECTIONS. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, DEFINITELY. WE CAN DO IT. IT'S NOT TYPICAL. UM, IN THOSE CASES, IF YOU KNOW, IT'S A STANDARD, YOUR STANDARD RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION, BUT EVERYTHING'S PRIVATE INSIDE, IT'D BE MORE OF A CONDOMINIUM REGIME KIND OF IDEA, UH, WHEN THEY'VE REALLY JUST BE REALLY WIDE ACCESS EASEMENTS THAT LOOK LIKE STREETS. YEAH. UM, SO, OKAY. I THINK WE SHOULD LIKE RAISE THE BAR. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD, UM, ARE YOU SAYING FOR BOTH M TWO AN EMPTY YEAH. YEAH. BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT TO GET THE BUILDING INSPECTOR AND THEN JUST LIKE REAL, LIKE UNDERSTAND THE ENGINEERING OF IT. LIKE WHAT CAN YOU DO IF IT IS A LEASED PROPERTY, UM, WOULD THEY JUST HAVE TO CITE THE FOUNDATIONS AND THEN YOU CAN MOVE IN AND LIKE TIE DOWN TO THOSE PERMANENT FOUNDATIONS AND THEN MOVE AWAY, LIKE, OR WOULD YOU HAVE TO JUST GO SELL EVERYTHING? I DON'T KNOW FOR THAT AS FAR AS REMOVING IT ONCE IT'S ON, BUT I KNOW AS FAR AS IF WE WERE IN A RURAL AREA, WHICH WE'RE NOT ANYMORE, WE HAVE A HOME REPAIR PROGRAM THAT WE CAN'T ASSIST PEOPLE WITH. IF THEY'RE IN A MANUFACTURED HOMES, THAT'S NOT ON A PERMANENT FOUNDATION, BUT A PART OF OUR FUNDING CAN BE USED TO PUT IT ON A PERMANENT FOUNDATION. SO THE HOUSE CAN BE MOVED OFF PERMANENT FOUNDATION PUT ON AND THE HOUSE POPPED BACK ON. AND THEN SUDDENLY IT'S, IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, NOT A MANUFACTURED HOME ANYMORE. OKAY. SO DIRECTION FOR STAFF, I GUESS IS THE QUESTION NOW. SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, UM, WE WOULD LIKE YOUR GUYS' JUST GENERAL INPUT ON THIS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, W WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN NOW IS THAT WE WOULD KIND OF GIVE WHAT OUR GENERAL CONSENSUS IS TO STAFF, AND THEN HOPEFULLY STAFF CAN TAKE THAT AND [00:30:01] MAKE AN ITEM FOR A FUTURE REGULAR MEETING. IS THAT CORRECT? UM, LET'S DO ANOTHER, UM, WORKSHOP, WHICH, OKAY. WE CAN DO THAT FOR THE LAST, THE FOURTH TUESDAY IN MAY. OKAY. AND NOW W WITH THE INTENT OF, UM, INVITING THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AS WELL. OKAY. IS HE, HIS NAME IS GARY STEBBINS, A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE MAN. UM, UH, VERY PROFESSIONAL KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT? I MEAN, HAVING ANOTHER WORKSHOP ABOUT THE SAME ITEM. YEAH. MY ONLY, MY ONLY HESITATION ABOUT REQUIRING THE FOUNDATIONS IN M TWO WOULD BE, IF, ARE WE LOCKING SOMEBODY IN TO SAYING, OKAY, YOU PUT IT DOWN, YOU CAN'T EVER MOVE IT. UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THAT FLEXIBILITY AND MP3 THAT YOU CAN PICK UP YOUR HOME AND MOVE IT, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THE ONLY OPTION, IF YOU ARE RE SAYING THAT IF THAT APPEAR IN BEAM FOUNDATION IS CONSIDERED PERMANENT, THAT IF YOU PUT IT ON A PIER AND BEAM, IT WOULD BE A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO MOVE IT. IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THAT THAN IT WOULD BE ON A SLAB FOUNDATION. UM, MAYBE POSSIBLY, I MEAN, THAT'S. YEAH. AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'D LIKE TO, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER CAL IS I'D LIKE TO SEE IT RAISE FOR TWO OF THEM. AND THEN THE BUILDING INSPECTOR CAN TELL ME WHY YOU CAN'T. YEAH. IF THERE'S PRACTICAL REASONS WHY THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA, WE SHOULD HEAR THOSE AS WELL. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE. GOOD. SO I, IF, IF, IF WE'RE ALL GOOD TO KEEP THIS CONVERSATION GOING, BRING IT BACK NEXT MONTH. THAT'S WHAT WE'LL DO. IF ANYONE ELSE HAS ANYTHING ELSE, WE CAN NEVER TALK ABOUT IT NOW, BUT OTHERWISE WE CAN MOVE ON IF EVERYONE'S READY. ALL RIGHT. [4.C. Discussion Regarding Public Restrooms Near Mary Hartson Square Park.] UM, ITEM NUMBER FOUR, C DISCUSSION REGARDING PUBLIC RESTROOMS NEAR MARY HARTSON SQUARE PARK. MR. ATKINSON. ALL RIGHT. THIS ONE DOES NOT HAVE ANY BACKUP MATERIAL, UH, BECAUSE PRIMARILY IT WAS SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL WANTED TO SEE FROM, UH, TO GIVE STAFF IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION DIRECTION TO CONSIDER. UM, AND IT SORT OF TIES INTO THE FOUR D AS WELL AND AN ANCILLARY FASHION, BUT, UM, AS WE'VE INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY AND IN THE DOWNTOWN SQUARE IN THE PARK THERE, UM, THERE'S ALSO A REALIZATION THAT THERE'S NOT ANY REGULARLY OPERATED, UM, HOURS FOR PUBLIC RESTROOMS. THE ONLY ONES THAT TECHNICALLY ARE, WOULD BE, UH, IN THE KYLE AREA, SENIOR ZONE AND THE CRUDE CENTER, WHICH IS NOT, IT'S NOT REALLY AVAILABLE FOR THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL, UM, OR CITY HALL RIGHT HERE, WHICH IS RELATIVELY CLOSE. IT'S ACTUALLY NOT VERY FAR AWAY, BUT IT'S VERY INCONVENIENT IF, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A CHILD AND THEY'RE PLAYING ON THE PLAYGROUND AND YOU GOT TO RUN ALL OF A SUDDEN, UH, UH, FRIDAY, WE WERE, I WAS OVER HERE AT THE EARTH DAY EVENT IN THE EVENING, AND WE HAD MY FAMILY HERE AND TWICE, OR HAD TO BRING A KID OVER HERE TO CITY HALL. AND LUCKILY I HAD MY BADGE. RIGHT. CAUSE I COULD GET IN CITY HALL, WASN'T OPEN. SO RIGHT THERE, UH, WE, I JUST HAPPENED TO BE LUCKY CAUSE I WORK HERE. SO I HAVE, I CAN GET INTO CITY HALL. SO, UM, THERE WASN'T A LOT OF DETAIL PROVIDED IN THE ITEM TO CONSIDER TO STAFF OR THE PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION, BUT WE, THEY DO WANT US TO DISCUSS IT AND BRING SOME FORWARD. I, I PRESUME, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WANT US TO MAKE A METRIC OUT OF IT. LIKE GENERALLY, LIKE HOW MANY PUBLIC RESTROOMS DO WE NEED? LIKE HOW MANY STALLS, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE PRESS TO SOME EXTENT IT'S PROBABLY GONNA HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE BUILDING CODE, YOU KNOW, FROM A, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE EXPECTED CAPACITY IN A PARK AT ANY GIVEN TIME. AND WHAT'S WHAT SHOULD BE THERE. WHAT'S, WHAT'S APPROPRIATE ACTUALLY. MEGAN, YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME INPUT INSIGHT INTO THAT. MAYBE. I DON'T KNOW THE CODE OFF HAND, BUT YEAH, GENERALLY THERE IS LIKE HOW MANY, UH, TOILETS YOU NEED TO PROVIDE, UM, IN TERMS OF BUILDING. UM, BUT ALSO I, I WAS, UM, THINKING THAT IT COULD BE, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING. LIKE IF YOU GO ALONG THE HIKE AND BIKE TRAIL IN AUSTIN, HOW THEY'VE MADE THE PUBLIC RESTROOMS SORT OF SCULPTURAL OR PART OF LIKE ARTS IN THE LANDSCAPE. SO IF WE LOOK AT THE DOWNTOWN PLAN AT, THERE COULD BE SOME SORT OF, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE ART CENTERED OR SORT OF PLACEMAKING OUT OF THE RESTROOM OR HOW IT WOULD CONNECT TO WHATEVER ELSE IS GOING TO BE BUILT AROUND THERE. THOSE ARE JUST VERY VAGUE GENERAL IDEAS, BUT SO YES, LOOKING AT THE CODE AND THEN ALSO POSSIBILITIES OF HOW [00:35:01] TO MAKE IT LIKE A NICE PLACE. SO IT'S NOT JUST LIKE A RESTROOM THAT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, AT A PART KIND OF TRASH OR SOMETHING. YEAH. WE DON'T, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO AVOID. RIGHT. WITHOUT QUESTION. YEAH. UM, IT WOULD NEED TO BE SOMETHING AS ODD AS IT SOUNDS TO BE PROUD OF. UM, YOU'VE GIVEN US THE RESTROOM, BUT, UM, SOMETHING THAT WOULD, UM, THAT WOULD FIT IN VERY NICELY WITH THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT THAT WAS JUST COMPLETED THERE THAT WOULD, UH, SET A STANDARD OR A TONE AND ONE THAT AT THE SAME TIME, STAFF WOULD ALSO HAVE TO MAINTAIN IT. UM, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE CLEANED DAILY, I PRESUME, UM, FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. SO THERE'S A COST FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE. THERE'S ALWAYS A COST THOUGH. RIGHT. SO, UM, BUT I, I DO THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE ON SITE OR WITHIN THE VICINITY OF THAT, OF THAT, SOMEWHERE ON THAT BLOCK ON THE CITY PROPERTY. WELL, SO WHAT ABOUT THAT PROPERTY ACROSS FROM THE PARK ON BURLESON ONE TO FOUR SOUTH BURLINGTON, RIGHT. SO BECAUSE BUILDING SOMETHING ON THE ACTUAL SQUARE RIGHT NOW, I'M NOT SURE WE, WE JUST REDID IT. I I'M, IT SEEMS LIKE WE NEED TO BE IN THE VICINITY, BUT, BUT NOT NECESSARILY ON THE END, THE ACTUAL PARK AND THAT 1 0 4 SOUTH BURLESON SEEMS TO BE A PRIME LOCATION. IF THAT PROPERTY DOESN'T ALREADY HAVE A DIFFERENT, A DIFFERENT SPECIFIC USE. THAT'S NOT A BAD IDEA. UM, I KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF BG K ARCHITECTS WAS JUST AWARDED. I THINK THEY WERE AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING OR THE ONE BEFORE THAT, THE DESIGN, UM, FOR 1 0 4 SOUTH BURLESON, IT'S LIKE A $6,600,000 CONTRACT. THAT'S GOING TO BE A THREE WE THINK IS GOING TO BE A THREE STORY BUILDING WITH LIKE A PASS THROUGH THE, KIND OF LIKE A BREEZEWAY. SO IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO INCORPORATE A PUBLIC RESTROOM INTO THAT FACING OUTWARD OR SOMETHING APPROPRIATE, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY AS A PUBLIC RESTROOM, RIGHT. BECAUSE YEAH, HE, EVEN IF IT'S ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING AND, BUT YOU CAN GET ACCESS TO IT OR, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER THEY WANT TO DO IT IS FINE WITH ME. BUT, BUT THAT, THAT HAS, IT'S A VERY CLOSE, YOU'D HAVE TO CROSS THE STREET OR, YOU KNOW, BUT IT'S RIGHT THERE AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO CHANGE THE PARK THAT WE JUST DID AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO OPEN UP THE SENIOR CENTER, UM, EITHER. SO, AND IT'S A NATURAL EXTENSION. WHATEVER IS BUILT THERE SHOULD BE INCORPORATED AS A NATURAL EXPANSION EXTENSION TO THE PARK ITSELF. ABSOLUTELY. SO, UM, WHAT ABOUT ALONG THE VIBE TRAILS? THIS IS SORT OF A LITTLE BIT TANGENT OR THEY'RE GOING TO BE RESTROOMS ALONG THERE, OR HAVE THEY NOT CONSIDERED THAT YET? IT IS NOT IN THE CODE THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IT THOUGH. IT'S A GOOD IDEA. SO THE FIRST ROUND OF CODE AMENDMENTS WE DID WAS JUST TO GET A REQUIREMENT IN THE CODE TO BUILD THE VIBE TRAIL SYSTEM. IF YOU'RE ADJACENT TO IT, YOU GOT TO BUILD YOUR PORTION OF IT AS A DEVELOPER. AND WE WANTED TO GET THAT IN AND IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE TWEAKS FROM THE VIBE PERSPECTIVE TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE ROBUST WITHOUT QUESTION. UM, AS, UM, AS DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES INTO NODES FOR THOSE VIBE NODES COMES ALONG AS SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE CITY. IT'S DEFINITELY APPROPRIATE TO CONSIDER, INCORPORATE PUBLIC RESTROOMS OR PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE RESTROOMS, UM, INTO THAT ACCOUNT. UM, BECAUSE IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE USING IT THAT FREQUENTLY THE VIBE TRAIL SYSTEM AND COMING TO A HIGHER DENSITY AREA, OUTDOOR DINING AMPHITHEATER, WHAT HAVE YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED THAT. AND THEY, AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE PORT-A-POTTIES. SO, SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S WE, UM, THE BB PUD THAT W WAS PASSED A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, UH, THERE NORTH OF LOWS, UM, I BELIEVE IN THE D AND I HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE PUD DOCUMENT. I BELIEVE IT TALKS ABOUT CONSIDERATION OF HAVING A PUBLIC RESTROOM BUILT INTO THEIR DEVELOPMENT. UM, SO WE, IF MEMORY SERVES, WE NEGOTIATED THAT DON'T, DON'T HOLD ME TO IT THOUGH, BUT, BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE ARE CONSIDERING GENERALLY, UM, AT THIS TIME IT'S MORE OF A NEGOTIATION, UM, ITEM WHEN DEVELOPMENTS COME ON. UM, BUT THAT, I REALLY, AS AN IDEA, I DO LIKE THE ONE FOR SOUTH BURLESON PERSONALLY, I DON'T KNOW OF ANOTHER IDEA, YOU KNOW, I E CAUSE YOU ARE CORRECT WITHOUT THAT CITY HALL SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE CLOSEST PLACES WITH AN ALREADY CONSTRUCTED RESTROOM THAT'S ACCESSIBLE. THAT COULD BE, UH, BUT THERE JUST, ISN'T A LOT OF OPTIONS. YEAH. THERE'S PARKING ALL AROUND THE SQUARE, MAYBE ON THE NORTH SIDE, OR [00:40:01] I GUESS THEN MORRISON THE SOUTH SIDE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE CONVERTING SOME OF THOSE PARKING SPOTS INTO A, UH, YOU KNOW, USING, YOU KNOW, SOME PARKING SPOTS, SEALANT IT'S ALREADY THERE JUST CONVERTING THAT INTO A RESTROOM, MAYBE, RIGHT. IF IT'S, IF IT'S, IF THE RIGHT OF WAY IS OWNED BY THE CITY, THEN THAT IN, IN THE SOUTH, THE WEST OR THE EAST SIDE, THAT MAKES IT FROM A REGULATORY STANDPOINT, JURISDICTIONALLY, SOMETHING THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED THOSE NOT TYPICAL TO, YOU GOT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT PUTTING A BUILDING IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY. RIGHT. UM, IT'S NOT GENERALLY A GOOD IDEA JUST BECAUSE IT'S THE STREET. UM, AND WE, WE, WE, WE COULD PUT A PUBLIC RESTROOM ANYWHERE ON THAT PROPERTY THAT WE WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT TO JUST PUT IT SOMEWHERE, I PROBABLY COULD JUST GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE JUST DID IT THOUGH, YOU KNOW, WE JUST REDID THIS. I WAS TRYING TO FIND ANOTHER OPTION BESIDES PUTTING IT DIRECTLY THERE ON THE PROPERTY. UH, BUT, BUT IF WE CAN'T DO 1 0 4 BURLESON FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEN THAT ACTUALLY MIGHT BE THE ONLY REAL SOLUTION IS TO PUT IT, IF WE CAN'T USE THE PARKING LOT THEN THAN USE PART OF THE PROPERTY IN SOME WAY. BUT I WOULD TRY TO AVOID THAT IF WE COULD, GIVEN WHERE WE ARE NOW. YEAH. T TEMPORARY USES, LIKE, IF WE HAVE A FESTIVAL AND YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO GO RENT SOME PORT-A-POTTIES, THAT'S ONE THING, PUTTING IT, STACKING, YOU KNOW, FOLKS, A FEW SPACES IN THERE RIGHT AWAY. BUT WHEN YOU START MAKING PERMANENT IMPROVEMENTS TO THE RIGHT OF WAY, YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT. YEAH. GENERALLY, GENERALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICES. AND WHAT HAVE YOU, UM, I HAVE IT AS A NOTE THOUGH, AND I WOULD WANT TO BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT HOW MANY PARKING SPOTS WE LOSE. YEAH. THE LESS CORRECT. UM, THERE IS A PERCEPTION THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PARKING DOWNTOWN. UM, IN MOST CASES THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT THE CASE. WE GENERALLY HAVE MORE WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH, EXCEPT FOR SANTA ON THE SQUARE OR EVENTS LIKE THAT, WHERE IT FILLS UP PRETTY QUICKLY. UM, BUT AS PART OF A, THE BG K DOWNTOWN MASTER PLAN PROCESS, UH, THERE, UM, ONE OF THE COMPONENTS OF THAT IS PUTTING TOGETHER A PART, UH, A 12 BLOCK PARKING PLAN AS WELL. SO THAT WAY, UM, WE'LL HAVE A UNIFIED, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY IT'S, UH, IT MAY, IT MAY BE A PARKING DISTRICT BY DEFAULT, BUT, UM, THAT WAY WE CAN HAVE A PLAN THAT WE CAN ADHERE TO AND ALL THAT. SO IF WE DO NEED TO REMOVE PARKING AT SOMEPLACE OR ADD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, WE KNOW WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO SPECIFICALLY. UM, AND, AND THAT'S, UH, UH, THOSE EVENTS, THE SANTA AND SUCH ARE ONE REASON WHY I'D WANT TO LEAVE THOSE KINDS OF SPACES OPEN PEOPLE WILL WANT, CAUSE WE NEED THE PARKING LOT TOO, BECAUSE WE PROBABLY WILL NEED TO BRING AN EXTRA BATHROOMS FOR SPECIFIC EVENTS. AND THEN WE MAY NEED PORT-A-POTTIES FOR VERY SPECIFIC EVENTS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, BECAUSE WHATEVER WE DO HAVE AT SOUTH BURLESON OR WHEREVER WE HAVE, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOR, FOR THOSE EVENTS WHERE OUR DOWNTOWN IS PACKED. UM, SO, SO IF WE LEAVE THOSE, THOSE SOUTH SIDE SPACES OPEN, WE DIDN'T HAVE MORE PARKING OR WE HAVE OPTIONS TO BRING IN EXTRA, UH, EXTRA RESTROOMS IF WE NEED TO. YEAH. I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY APPROPRIATE TEMPORARY PORTA-POTTY IN THE PORT-A-POTTIES ON THE PARKING IS PROBABLY OKAY. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S ONE THING, BUT OKAY. ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? OKAY. WE'LL PROBABLY ALSO NEED TO, WELL, THE FIJI K IF THE, IF THE PUBLIC RESTROOM IS A SEPARATE BUILDING FROM ONE FOR SOUTH BURLESON, THEN WE NEED TO IDENTIFY FUNDS AND COST TO DESIGN IT. BUT IF IT'S INCORPORATED INTO THE BUILDING, THEN IT'S ALREADY DONE. YEAH. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. I'LL JUST PUT IT DOWN AS AN IDEA FOR IDENTIFYING FUNDS. REALLY GOOD IDEA. OKAY. THANK YOU. I'M REAL. READY TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. OKAY. ITEM NUMBER FOUR, [4.D. Discussion Regarding Code Amendments to the Food Truck Ordinance] D DISCUSSION REGARDING CODE AMENDMENTS TO THE FOOD TRUCK ORDINANCE. MR. ATKINSON. ALL RIGHT. THIS ONE, THE ITEM THAT I HAVE IN THERE FOR BACKING MATERIAL OR MY PROPOSED EDITS FROM THE YEAR PLUS AGO, UH, WHEN WE STARTED LOOKING AT IT, UM, I BROUGHT IT TO CITY COUNCIL. I THINK, I BELIEVE I BROUGHT IT TO Y'ALL TO JUST LOOK OVER IT. WASN'T A PUBLIC HEARING. IT, WE JUST WANTED SOME INPUT. UM, BUT THEN OTHER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED SINCE THEN WE GOT SIDETRACKED, UM, MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO CONSIDER, BUT IT WAS AN ITEM THAT THE CITY COUNCIL IN THEIR VISIONING SESSION THAT THEY DID UP IN FRISCO EARLIER THIS YEAR, THEY WANTED TO BRING BACK. [00:45:01] SO THIS IS STILL IN THE SAME FORMAT. UM, I DIDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING, UM, RELATED TO THE FOOD TRUCK ORDINANCE. MY INTENT IS I DO BELIEVE THE, UH, OUR CURRENT FOOD TRUCK ORDINANCE IS OVERLY BURDENSOME WITHOUT QUESTION, I THINK IT'S, IT WAS WRITTEN TO DISCOURAGE FOOD TRUCKS. I THINK, UM, IT'S APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THE OPTION TO HAVE FOOD TRUCKS IN, IN KYLE. I THINK IT'S A GOOD STEPPING STONE IN, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CAPITAL TO START A RESTAURANT, A GOOD STEPPING STONE TO START OUT AT, AND THEN EVENTUALLY MAYBE IF IT'S WHAT YOU DESIRE, MOVE INTO A BRICK AND MORTAR DISTRICT, ONCE YOU ESTABLISH, ESTABLISH A CUSTOMER BASE. UM, AND WE'VE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT, UM, UH, WITH, WITH Y'ALL AND THE DAYAS. UM, SO EVERYTHING THAT YOU SEE IN THESE SECTIONS IN RED IS WHAT'S EXISTING. THAT'S MARKED OUT. OH, WELL, HOLD ON. LET ME JOIN THE MEETING VIRTUALLY. YEAH. BEAR WITH ME JUST A MOMENT. I GUESS IT WOULD HELP IF YOU CAN SEE IT TOO. PULL THIS UP REAL QUICK. BEAR WITH ME JUST A MOMENT. HERE WE GO. I GOT SO MANY TABS OPEN ON MY COMPUTER. ALL RIGHT, THERE WE GO. ALL RIGHT. SO EVERYTHING IN RED THAT HAS A STRIKE THROUGH ON THE KEY, ISN'T IT PULLING UP ON YOUR SCREENS? COOL. YEAH. EVEN WE'RE GOING TO MORE THAN WELCOME TO JUMP ON THEIR PHONE. WE KNOW YOU'RE NOT A COMMISSIONER JAMES OR, OR CHASE. SO, UM, SO EVERYTHING YOU SEE THAT'S HAS A, A STRIKE THROUGH, UM, IN RED IS THE EXISTING, UM, THAT I WANT TO REMOVE OR CHANGE. AND THEN EVERYTHING IN BLUE I'VE ADDED TO THE CODE AND EVERYTHING IN BLACK HAS JUST NO CHANGE. SO, UM, ALL THIS IS WITH THE INTENT TO MAKE IT EASIER TO, TO HAVE A FOOD TRUCK. AND IN KYLE. SO ESSENTIALLY IT'S SPLIT INTO TWO CATEGORIES. SO YOU HAVE TEMPORARY FOOD VENDORS AND YOU HAVE MOBILE FOOD VENDORS, MOBILE FOOD VENDORS, AND BOTH REQUIRE PERMITS BY THE WAY, UM, FROM THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, BUT A MOBILE FOOD VENDOR IS A VENDOR THAT'S IN PLACE LESS THAN FOUR HOURS. AND THEN THEY PACK UP AND THEY LEAVE A TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR. CAN IT BE IN ONE PLACE FOR UP TO 12 MONTHS? AND THEY REQUIRE A SITE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT THROUGH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, NOTHING CRAZY. JUST, WE NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING A TO SCALE DRAWING, SHOWING WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE, AND THEN WE JUST NEED TO DO A QUICK ONCE-OVER OF, AND MAKE SURE IT'S COMPLIANT. UM, AND THEY ALSO HAVE TO HAVE PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE RESTROOMS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR FOR THE ONE THAT'S UP TO 12 MONTHS ONSITE FOR THE BUSINESS THAT'S ALREADY THERE. SO THERE'S A ALREADY A LITTLE BIT ONEROUS REQUIREMENT OR RELATING TO RESTROOMS REQUIREMENTS, UH, THAT THEY HAVE TO BUILD IF THEY DON'T ALREADY HAVE THEM. SO, UM, WHICH THEN TIES INTO PUBLIC RESTROOMS, UH, AS A QUESTION AS WELL, BUT LET'S JUST GO DOWN THE LIST OR WHAT I'VE SHOWN IN HERE. UM, RIGHT NOW THE CODE SAYS A TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR IS LOCATED. NO, YOU CAN BE IN EITHER THE RETAIL SERVICES. SO YOU WOULD DO ONE OR CBT TWO OR EASE ENTERTAINMENT, ZONING DISTRICT. IF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET, THE TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR IS LOCATED NO CLOSER THAN 50 FEET FROM THOROUGHFARES. THAT'S KIND [00:50:01] OF VAGUE. UM, THE INTENTION IS THEY DON'T WANT THE FOOD TRUCK ACTING AS A TEMPORARY. DRIVE-THROUGH ADJACENT TO STREETS WITH A, WITH A WINDOW HANGING OUT NEXT TO THE TWO THROUGH THE DRIVE LANE, RIGHT. FOR THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UM, I WANT TO CHANGE THAT. I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBLE. I THINK 50 FEET'S A LITTLE BIT, ESPECIALLY IN LIKE THE DOWNTOWN AREA. THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT TOO TO BURDENSOME. UM, THEY CAN HAVE IT UP AGAINST THE PROPERTY LINE IF THEY WANT, BUT IT NEEDS TO FACE IN TO THE PROPERTY. UM, THEY CAN FACE THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK IF, UH, IF IT'S AN ADA COMPLIANT SIDEWALK THAT'S AVAILABLE, UH, THEY HAVE TO HAVE SUFFICIENT ROOM FOR ACCESSIBILITY. UM, AND THE SIDEWALK MUST BE AT LEAST SIX FEET WIDE. THAT WAY YOU CAN HAVE A LINE FORM ON HALF OF THAT AND STILL HAVE A THREE FOOT WIDE SPACE FOR ADA, FOR A WHEELCHAIR TO GET THROUGH. UM, THEY CAN USE PUBLIC PARKING WITH CITY PERMISSION, UH, BUT THEY CAN'T USE IT AS A DRIVE-THROUGH. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN I WAS THINKING WITH THAT IS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY SET UP SHOP AND ONE OF THE, UH, SOME OF THE, THEY TAKE UP LIKE FOUR PARKING SPACES OVER RIGHT BY THE SQUARE, UH, ON THE EAST, SOUTH OR WEST SIDE OF IT, BUT THEY CAN NOT HAVE IT FACE INTO THE, THE, THE DRIVE LANE OF THE STREET SO THEY CAN SET UP TEMPORARILY AND THEN FACE INTO THE PROPERTY. UH, THERE'S STILL NEED TEMPORARY BARRIERS TO DELINEATE THE SPACE BETWEEN THE VENDOR AND THE STREET AS WELL, JUST FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE. UM, IF ADJACENT IS SINGLE FAMILY TO FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, THE LOCATION OF THE TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR MAY NOT BE CLOSE TO THAN FOUR FEET OF SUCH PROPERTY LINE, UM, WOULD THE WAY IT CURRENTLY READS RIGHT NOW. AND IT'S NOT REALLY REFERENCED IN THERE IN THIS SECTION. UH, THEY CAN'T BE CLOSER THAN 25 FEET TO THE PROPERTY LINE, EXCEPT FOR IN THE CBD TO ZONING DISTRICT. UM, THE FOREFOOT, THE REASON I SAID FOREFOOT IS BECAUSE ELSEWHERE IN OUR COMMERCIAL CODE, IF YOU'RE ADJACENT TO A SINGLE FAMILY OR TWO FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, AND YOU'RE A COMMERCIAL ENTITY WANTING TO DEVELOP, WE REQUIRE A FOUR-FOOT WIDE, UH, LANDSCAPE BUFFER. UM, SO IT'S JUST TO MATCH THAT. IT'S A REFERENCE TO THAT POINT. SO THEY CAN, YOU CAN GET AS CLOSE TO THE, FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE OUT TO FOUR FEET, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE LANDSCAPING THERE. UM, AND YOU CAN HAVE THEM POTTED PLANTS OR WHATEVER. UM, TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR MAY NOT BE LOOKING IN AREA, ALSO NOT ALLOWED IN SECTION 11 DASH 1 7 7, AND 1 77. THAT'S RELATING TO FOOD COURTS AND THAT'S JUST GENERALLY RETAIL SERVICES. SEE, WE DON'T SEEM TO DO, IT'S JUST A REFERENCE BACK TO THAT. UM, AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE, THAT IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT WE DO NOT REQUIRE THEM TO CONSTRUCT A, PROVIDE A PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE RESTROOM ASSOCIATED WITH THE PERMIT, UM, REQUIRING PERMANENT IMPROVEMENTS TO A SITE WHEN YOU'RE A TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR IN, IN MY VIEW IS A BIT RIDICULOUS, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE LIMITED CAPITAL, YOU WANT TO SET UP, UH, A PROJECT OR A BUSINESS THAT YOU CAN ESTABLISH THAT THE CUSTOMER BASE AND, AND JUST GET IT GOING. AND WHAT HAVE YOU, AND MAYBE LATER ON, WHEN YOU DECIDED TO ACTUALLY BUILD A RESTAURANT, IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT, THEN YOU GO FROM THAT POINT. NOW, TANGENTIALLY, I'M WONDERING, IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO SAY, HAVE AN EXCLUSION THERE AS WELL THAT SAYS IF YOU'RE WITHIN SO MANY FEET OF A PUBLIC RESTROOM, LIKE ONE OF FOUR SOUTH BURLESON OR THE PUBLIC PARK, IF, IF, IF WE DON'T, IF Y'ALL, DON'T LIKE THIS IDEA AND COUNCIL DOESN'T GO FOR THIS IDEA, MAYBE THAT'S AN EXCEPTION. IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S SOMEWHERE IN THE AREA WITHIN SO MANY LINEAR FEET OR, OR WHAT HAVE YOU. UM, WE HAVE A SECTION IN HERE WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT, UM, WE WON'T ALLOW ANOTHER TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR WITHIN 150 FEET OF ANOTHER TEMPORARY FOOD VENDOR ON THE SAME LOT. UM, TO ME THAT SEEMS A REALLY RESTRICTIVE, UM, THAT'S A BIG SPACE BETWEEN TWO, TWO FOOD TRUCKS. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A LITTLE BIT CLOSER, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A, WE DON'T NEED, WE DON'T NEED 150 FEET BETWEEN THEM. NOW. THEY WILL NEED TO MEET BUILDING CODE FROM A SAFETY AND FIRE COOKING AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. SO IF IT'S MEETING, BUILDING CODE TO ME, THAT'S SUFFICIENT ENOUGH. UM, I STRUCK NUMBER FIVE OUT BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE FOREFOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER AND WHAT HAVE YOU, ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT SECTION? AND THIS IS ME GOING OVERBOARD, MIND YOU, I DIDN'T REALLY HAVE ANY DIRECTION. THEY JUST SAID, START ADJUSTING IT TO MAKE IT EASIER. SO IF THERE'S STUFF THAT YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH, THAT YOU WOULD SAY, HEY, LET'S KEEP THIS IN THIS SECTION IN THERE, OR MAYBE TWEAK THIS. I WANT TO HEAR IT. YEAH. UH, I GOT TO TELL [00:55:01] YOU THAT THE FOREFOOT NEAR RESIDENTIAL, IT GIVES ME QUITE A BIT OF HEARTBURN. UM, I DID SOME LOOK, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT WHAT'S BEING DONE IN OTHER AREAS AND SAN MARCUS AND AN AUSTIN. AND I THINK IT'S MORE, THE MINIMUM IS 20 FEET. SO IT JUST, UH, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY, THAT'S GOING TO HAVE THAT FOR UP TO 12 MONTHS, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME SEPARATION BETWEEN THAT TEMPORARY VENDOR AND A RESIDENTIAL AREA. AND I, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'VE GOT IT IN LIMITED SPACES AND IT HAS TO BE WITHIN CONTROLLED DISTRICTS AND WHATNOT, BUT YOU DO HAVE SOME RESIDENTIAL AREAS THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, ABUT TO THAT. AND I WOULD LIKE TO PROTECT THOSE, YOU KNOW, SEE THAT THERE'S SOME, SOME SAFETY AND HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I THINK BACK TO WE HAD, THERE WAS AN INCIDENT IN AUSTIN WITH THE TEMPORARY, UH, FOOD TRUCK THAT WAS PARKED. FORTUNATELY IT WAS DOWNTOWN, UH, BUT SOMETHING WENT WRONG WITH THEIR PROPANE TANK AND THE WHOLE THING BLEW UP. AND IF YOU HAVE OTHER ONES THAT ARE FAIRLY CLOSE TO EITHER RESIDENTIAL AREAS OR OTHER FOOD TRUCKS, YOU CAN HAVE A CHAIN REACTION. I USED TO LIVE IN, IN CAVE. AND WHEN THE STEINER RANCH, UH, FIRE HIT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT KEPT THAT THING GOING WAS PROPANE TANKS. YOU COULD SEE WHERE THE FIRE STARTED TO GO DOWN AND THEN YOU'D SEE AN EXPLOSION. AND IT BASICALLY THE FIRE HAD SPREAD TO ANOTHER PROPANE TANK, WHICH FED IT TO THE NEXT ONE. AND THERE WAS A CHAIN REACTION THAT HAPPENED WITH THAT. I'D HATE TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPEN, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'VE GOT THEM PACKED INTO A FAIRLY SMALL AREA. UH, SO I GUESS FROM A HEALTH AND SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME SEPARATION LARGER THAN FOUR FEET, UH, UM, BUILDING CODE, OR IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN THERE, PERHAPS AT LEAST THAT I WONDER IF IT'S A MAYBE FIRE CODE OR RIGHT. AND THAT'S MY OTHER, MY OTHER QUESTION WITH THIS IS HA YOU KNOW, AT WHAT POINT DOES EITHER THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OR HEALTH REPRESENTATIVES GET TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL ISSUES FOR FIRE SAFETY, BUT ALSO, UH, IF YOU ARE COOKING, YOU'VE GOT GREASED IT'S ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, WHICH HAS A TENDENCY TO DRAG VERMIN OR VARIOUS OTHER THINGS. AND YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT THAT INTO, UH, OR BRING THAT AN INCREASE INTO A RESIDENTIAL AREA, OR EVEN HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF IT SPREADING WITHIN A CONFINED AREA. OKAY. I'M MAKING A NOTE TO ASK THE BUILDING OFFICIAL. OKAY. YEAH. SO AGAIN, THESE, THESE, THESE ARE JUST IDEAS THAT I'VE DID ADDED TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBLE. AND WITHOUT QUESTION, THERE'S PROBABLY STUFF IN THERE THAT, YEAH. AND, AND DON'T GET ME WRONG. I THINK THE IDEA OF A FOOD TRUCK IS GREAT. I'VE MET, THEY'VE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN A LOT OF AREAS, UH, AND IT'S, AND IT IS A GOOD WAY FOR, FOR A BUSINESS TO BUILD THEIR CLIENT BASE, YOU KNOW, IN THE EVENT THAT THEY WANT TO GO TO A BRICK AND MORTAR. UH, BUT I JUST WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME PROVISIONS OR PROTECTIONS FOR FOLKS THAT ARE ADJACENT TO THAT. OKAY. AND, UM, SO FOOD TRUCKS, THEY ARE, THEY ARE UNDER, THEY DO GET INSPECTIONS, JUST LIKE A RESTAURANT, RIGHT. AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE LIKE THE, TO THE HAND WASHING SINK AND THE DISH, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE SEPARATE COMPARTMENTS THAT A NORMAL KITCHEN COMMERCIAL KITCHEN, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE OUR CODE SAYS THAT IN THERE. CAUSE THEY HAVE TO GET THAT TO BE INSPECTED BY THE HEALTH HEALTH DEPARTMENT, FROM THE COUNTY. THEY HAVE TO, UH, OPERATE OUT OF, UH, A COMMISSARY. YOU HAVE TO OCCASIONALLY GO BACK AND HAVE THEIR, THEIR FOOD TRUCK DEEP CLEANED AND EVERYTHING. AND THEY CAN'T, UM, HAVE REUSABLE DISHES. THEY HAVE TO HAVE DISPOSABLE ONES. UM, AND WHAT HAVE YOU SO WELL, SPEAKING OF THAT, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WE CAME ACROSS WITH, WITH OTHER AREAS IS THAT REQUIREMENT WAS THAT THE FOOD BE DISPENSED IN COMPOSTABLE CONTAINERS AS OPPOSED TO STYROFOAM. I WONDER WHETHER THERE'S A PROVISION IN THAT. THERE'S NOT, IT JUST, IT'S NOT REUSABLE LIKE, UH, YOU CAN'T WASH THE DISHES. RIGHT. SO IT HAS TO BE DISPOSABLE. IS THAT SOMETHING I WANT TO CONSIDER IS CON UH, I CAN'T TALK COMPOSTABLE COMPOSTABLE. THANK YOU. YES, I WOULD. I THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING GOOD TO LOOK IN HERE. I, I WOULDN'T BE IN FAVOR OF MAKING THAT REQUIREMENT, BUT THAT'S JUST ME PERSONALLY. OKAY. UM, I DO HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU PROPOSED, UH, FIRST A AND B. I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND THE WORDING OF A, THE SERVING WINDOW MAY FACE INTO THE PROPERTY. UM, SHOULDN'T IT BE? SHOULDN'T A, AND B, B BE COMBINED IN THE SERVING WINDOW SHALL FACE IN THE PROPERTY, UNLESS, AND THEN B UH, UNLESS IT'S, YOU KNOW, UM, MAY FACE A RIGHT AWAY INTO AN ADA COMPLIANCE SIDEWALK. SO I THINK THOSE TWO SHOULD BE COMBINED. AND THE EXPECTATION [01:00:01] IS IT DOES FACE INTO THE PROPERTY UNLESS THEY MEET THE REQUIREMENT OF B 'CAUSE. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF A, OTHERWISE IT MAY FACE ON THE PROPERTY W OKAY. BUT, UH, I THINK, I THINK WE SHOULD TELL THEM WHEN IT SHOULD OR, AND, OR SHOULDN'T. YEAH, YEAH. THAT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO. RIGHT. OKAY. UM, THE OTHER CONCERN I HAD, AND THIS IS MORE JUST DISCUSSION BETWEEN US, UM, FOR THE RESTROOMS. NOW I UNDERSTAND THE IDEA. IT IS VERY RESTRICTIVE TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, A FOOD TRUCK POPS UP HAS TO HAVE A RESTROOM EITHER WITH IT OR, OR, OR THE RENTING SPACE FROM A PLACE THAT LETS THEM USE THE RESTROOM. UM, AND, AND I GET IT, IT'S, IT'S MUCH HARDER FOR FOOD TRUCKS. IF THAT'S A REQUIREMENT, IF THAT'S OUR REQUIREMENT, FOOD TRUCKS HAVE A MUCH EASIER ABILITY TO POP UP. AND, BUT WHY WOULD WE NOT BE GIVING THEM AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER THE BRICK AND MORTAR TYPE BUSINESSES? UM, WHAT WOULD THAT AS A REQUIREMENT FOR A BRICK AND MORTAR BUSINESS THAT YOU COME IN, YOU CAN SIT DOWN AT THE TABLE, YOU CAN USE THE RESTROOM, UM, ALLOWING NOT REQUIRING THAT THAN A FOOD TRUCKS SEEMS TO INCENTIVIZE DOING A FOOD TRUCK INSTEAD OF A BRICK AND MORTAR BUSINESS. AND, AND I DON'T REALLY HAVE AN ANSWER ON THIS ONE YET. I'M JUST A BIT CONCERNED AS TO WHAT MY THOUGHT WOULD BE, WHAT MY VIEW OF THAT WOULD BE. HAD. I BEEN A PERSON WHO OPENED A RESTAURANT IN A BRICK AND MORTAR TYPE BUILDING, AND THEN I SEE THIS AS NOW THE FOOD TRUCK, NEW ORDINANCE. SO IT'S MORE JUST, I DON'T REALLY KNOW. I HAVE A THOUGHT ON THAT. I DON'T KNOW ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, I JUST KINDA WANTED TO GET YOUR GUYS' THOUGHTS ON IT. DOES THIS, DOES THIS APPLY TO BOTH POP-UP FOOD TRUCKS? LIKE I REMEMBER WHEN TORCHY'S WAS TESTED IN THE MARKET, YOU KNOW, A NEW DRE TORCHY'S IS GOING TO BE OVER THERE. THEY WEREN'T PROVIDING A RESTROOM. THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, THEIR TRUCK JUST CAME INTO TOWN AND PARKED AND PEOPLE WENT, YEAH. THAT STUFF. OH, I PRESUME THEY, THEY GOT, I'M ASSUMING THEY GOT A TEMPORARY OR MOBILE FOOD PERMIT FOR FOUR HOURS OR LESS. SO MOBILE FOOD VENDORS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO IT BECAUSE MORE, THEY JUST KIND OF, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TRAVELING AROUND OR MAYBE THEY'LL POP UP IN A HOA AMENITY CENTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YEAH. WE'LL HEAR HIM. YEAH. WE'LL HEAR ABOUT HIM IN A NEIGHBORHOOD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THEY'RE GOING TO BE OVER HERE OVER THERE. SO THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO MOBILE, CORRECT? IT APPLIES TO TEMPORARY, WHICH IS UP TO 12 MONTHS, ESSENTIALLY FOR MORE THAN FOUR HOURS AND UP TO 12 AFTER 12 MONTHS BY DEFAULT. YUP. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR QUESTION. UM, SO THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE RESTROOMS IN THE VICINITY, CORRECT? NO, RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE TO DO THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO STRIKE THAT REQUIREMENT? AND IF THAT IS NOT, UM, RIGHT. SOMETHING I WANT TO DO IS AN, A SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN TO SAY, HEY, IF THERE'S A PUBLIC RESTROOM THAT THE CITY HAS, THAT'S FINE. BECAUSE THREE F RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, THE CHANGE IS SAYING, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A RESTROOM ANY LONGER. IT SAYS IT'S NOT REQUIRED TO CONSTRUCT OR PROVIDE A PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE RESTROOM ASSOCIATED WITH ITS PERMIT. SO YEAH, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE RESTROOMS IT, AT LEAST IN THE PUB, AT LEAST IF YOU, YOU KNOW, UM, I'M JUST THINKING OF LIKE, IN RETAIL, LIKE IF YOU CAN PROVE, LIKE, THERE IS A RESTROOM WITHIN, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER MANY FEET, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE ONE IN YOUR RETAIL SPACE. SO IF THERE'S LIKE A PUBLIC RESTROOM WITHIN WHATEVER VICINITY THAT PEOPLE CAN ACCESS, HOW MANY PUBLIC RESTAURANTS DO WE HAVE IN THE CITY? YEAH. THAT'S WHY WE NEED PUBLIC RESTROOMS. I JUST MOSTLY DESIGNED, UH, THEY'RE OUT OF MOBILE IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE TEMPORARY, YOU KNOW, AND I GUESS IN THE APPLICATION, ARE YOU GOING TO BE HERE FOR, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE JUST GOING TO GIVE IT A TRY FOR TWO WEEKS. ALL RIGHT. THERE'S REALLY NO NEED FOR RESTAURANT. AND I GUESS THE OTHER THING IS, ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE, SO IT'S A, I GUESS, WHEREVER THEY'RE LOCATED, IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, AT, AT THE PARK OR THEY'RE GOING TO SHOW UP, YOU KNOW, FRIDAY AND SATURDAY, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER ARE THEY GOING TO PROVIDE SORT OF, WELL, I GUESS THERE'S ALREADY SEEN, BUT IF THEY'RE AT A PARK AND THERE'S NO, YOU KNOW, UH, I GUESS IS THE FOOD VENDOR GOING TO PROVIDE TABLES AND CHAIRS HAVE PEOPLE SIT. SO WHEN THEY ORDER, IT'S LIKE, HEY, YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO TAKE IT HOME. YOU CAN JUST SEE HERE THEN IN THAT CASE, IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE THERE ON A REGULAR BASIS EVERY FRIDAY AND SATURDAY FOR, YOU KNOW, THREE MONTHS, SIX MONTHS OR WHATEVER, THEN YES, THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE, IT SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT THAT THEY DO HAVE. BUT IF IT'S JUST THE, I'M ONLY GOING TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE [01:05:01] MY FOOD TRUCK HERE AND PEOPLE JUST PICK IT UP AND THERE'S NOWHERE FOR THEM TO SIT AND I THINK THEY SHOULD, THEY SHOULD HAVE TO HAVE. AND THEN WHAT, WHAT, WHAT ABOUT WHEN THEY'RE, THEY'RE COOKING IN THE FOOD TRUCK? THERE'S NO RESTROOMS IN THE FOOD TRUCK, RIGHT. FOR THOSE PROVIDERS. SO THEY WOULD, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO, BUT GENERALLY THERE'S NOT AT ALL. YEAH. SO PROVIDE A PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE RESTROOM. COULD IN THEORY BE A PORTA-POTTY RIGHT. THAT THEY'VE RENTED. IT COULD, DOES PUBLICLY ACCESS IT AS THE DEFINITION OF PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE RESTROOM, MEAN ADA COMPLIANT. YES. I MEAN, I WOULD THINK SO. RIGHT. PORTA-POTTIES ADA COMPLIANT. I I'M SURE THAT THEY HAVE RIGHT. THEY HAVE, YEAH. OKAY. SO IF YOU WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE LIKE HOW MANY ACCESSIBLE YEAH. I GUESS JUST ONE OF EACH. SO, SO THAT, THAT DEPENDS ON THE CODE, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A HUGE FESTIVAL WHERE YOU HAVE ALL THESE FOOD TRUCKS, YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE LIKE ONE RESTAURANT. NO, CAUSE IT'S, UH, IT'S BASED ON A MASS GATHERING, THERE'S, THERE'S A CERTAIN METRIC FOR THE BUILDING CODE. AND SO, SO W W THE REASON WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC QUESTION IS BECAUSE THE FOOD TRUCK THAT'S DOWN THERE AT THE HARD CORNER OF BURLINGTON. UM, AND, AND THEY'RE LUCKY THAT IT'S ALREADY THERE. THE PREVIOUS FOOD TRUCK WAS REQUIRED TO BUILD TO, UH, UH, A MAN AND A WOMAN'S RESTROOM ON SITE, BECAUSE THE PAWN SHOP, WHICH OWNS THAT LOT, DIDN'T HAVE AN ADA COMPLIANT RESTROOM. SO THEY CONVERTED THE OLD OFFICE FOR THE CAR DEALERSHIP THERE INTO THAT. RIGHT. AND THEY WERE NOT HAPPY THAT THEY HAD TO DO THAT FOR THE EXTRA EXPENSE, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS. THE CODE IS WHAT THE CODE SAYS. UM, AND WHICH THERE WERE, THERE WAS A LOT OF GOING BACK AND FORTH AT THE ADMINISTRATION LEVEL. THERE WAS DISCUSSION LIKE, OKAY, WELL, IF IT'S TEMPORARY, TRULY TEMPORARY IN NATURE, WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO PROVIDE, UH, A PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE RESTROOM? IS, IS THAT GOING OVERBOARD ON REQUIREMENTS OR NOT? SO THAT'S, THAT'S TO BRING IT BACK. THAT'S ONE OF THE AMENDMENTS TO CONSIDER IS DO WE WANT TO KEEP THAT REQUIREMENT IN THERE? IF WE DON'T, LET'S STRIKE IT. IF WE WANT TO TWEAK IT, IF WE WANT TO KEEP IT IN THERE, IS THERE SOME WAY TO MAKE IT MORE, UH, EQUITABLE IF YOU WILL, UM, FROM A COST PERSPECTIVE OR, AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, UM, OBVIOUSLY IT'S GREAT FOR THAT ONE DOWN THERE. CAUSE THAT MAKES IT A GOOD SPOT TO HAVE IT UNTIL THEY'RE READY TO ACTUALLY REDEVELOP THE SITE. I CAN SEE IT BOTH WAYS. UM, BUT I'LL SAY THIS, IF I'M GOING TO GO TO A FOOD TRUCK AND IT'S JUST A, ONE-OFF ONE, I DON'T ACTUALLY CARE IF THERE'S A RESTROOM IN THERE OR NOT. I GO AND GET MY FOOD AND I GO AND LEAVE. MAYBE I'LL SIT AT A, AT A, AT A LITTLE, UH, PICNIC TABLE IF THEY PROVIDED ONE. BUT, UM, IN MY MIND, FOOD TRUCKS ARE TEMPORARY IN NATURE. SO I DON'T REALLY WRITE IT. I DON'T CONSIDER IT. USUALLY. THIS IS WHY I WAS TORN ON IT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DO THINGS THAT MAKE HAVING FOOD TRUCKS MORE RESTRICTIVE. I WANT THEM TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO REASONABLY BE IN OUR CITY. UM, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO BE THE REASON THAT, THAT, THAT THERE'S NO BATHROOM FOR BOTH THE EMPLOYEES AND ANYONE IN THE VICINITY EITHER. YEAH. AND, AND SO, I MEAN, I AM, I AM AMENABLE TO, TO THE IDEA OF THERE NEEDS TO BE A BATHROOM WITHIN SO FAR DISTANCE. THE PROBLEM IS OTHER THAN THIS POSSIBLE ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN SOUTH BURLESON. YEAH. THERE, THERE ARE NO PUBLIC RESTROOMS LIKE CLARK, RIGHT. THERE'S A COUPLE OF THERE, BUT YEAH, THAT'S FINE. BUT, BUT, UM, SO, BUT, BUT, BUT TO ACTUALLY HAVE A, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE A MOBILE FOOD TRUCK GO TO GLYCOLIC PARK. YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A TEMPORARY ONE THINK RAY CLARK PARK, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL YOU COULD. OKAY. YOU COULD, IF THE CITY, I MEAN, IT'S NOT CITY PROPERTY, SO YOU'D HAVE TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE CITY TO DO AND SET UP SHOP THERE. UM, THEY, I THINK THE PARKS DEPARTMENT IS TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THEM MORE GENERALLY. OKAY. UM, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE COORDINATING WITH THEM TO SET UP AT LEAST MOBILE ONES WHERE THERE'S NO PUBLIC RESTROOMS. AND SO COULD THIS BECOME PART OF LIKE THE COMP PLAN OR THE LOOKING AT THE CBD A ONE OR TWO OR WHEREVER THEY WANT TO HAVE THEM, AND THEN LIKE HOW TO INCORPORATE, UM, PUBLIC RESTROOMS AND CONNECTIVITY WITH THE REST OF THE, YOU KNOW, CITY, IT COULD BE THAT, AND THEN THAT'S ANOTHER THING ACTUALLY PLANNED OUT AND THOUGHT OUT RATHER THAN JUST LIKE RANDOM. YEAH. I MEAN, IF IT, IF IT'S MORE APPROPRIATE TO INCLUDE IT AS A CODE WHEN RIGHT AFTER THE COMP PLAN, OR IS IT BECAUSE WHERE ARE THEY WANTING THEM TO POP UP? IT'S NOT JUST IN LIKE RANDOM, YOU KNOW, [01:10:01] AND, AND WE DON'T HAVE, I'M SURE THERE'S AN IDEA WHERE WE WOULD LIKE HIM AND I DON'T KNOW THAT ANSWER EITHER. SO THAT, AGAIN, ANOTHER QUESTION, UM, DO WE WANT TO SEE MORE OF THEM DOWNTOWN, MORE OF THAT POP-UP KIND OF IMPROMPTU KIND OF FEEL, UM, DO WE WANT THEM IN SPECIFIC LOCATIONS LIKE PUBLIC PARKS, UM, OR, YOU KNOW, AND ALSO WITH THE WAY THE CURRENT CODE IS WRITTEN, YOU CAN EVEN IN THOSE SPECIFIC ZONING DISTRICTS ESTABLISH AND BUILD A FOOD TRUCK COURT WHERE THEY HAVE, YOU HAVE PERMIT IT'S I LIKE TO REFER TO IT AS AN RV PARK FOR FOOD TRUCKS, BECAUSE THAT'S, CAUSE THAT'S WHAT MAKES SENSE FOR WHEN YOU TELL SOMEBODY THAT, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE SO MANY PARKING SPACES PER FOOD TRUCK. YOU GOT TO HAVE A DEDICATED BATHROOM IN THAT INSTANCE. AND THEY'RE TYING INTO WHAT UTILITIES AS WELL, TO SOME EXTENT. SO THERE'S ALREADY, THERE'S THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT FROM A GREASE TRAP PERSPECTIVE AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF, BUT FROM A, BUT THAT'S NOT TEMPORARY EITHER. SO THAT'S MORE OF A QUASI PERMANENT, RIGHT? ONE STEP FURTHER. WELL, THIS NUMBER THERE DOWNTOWN AUSTIN HAS THE FOOD COURT AND OUR FOOD AND THOSE VENDORS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. AND IT KIND OF WHAT CREATES THE VIBE FOR THAT, FOR THAT AREA. I'M ALSO WONDERING, I MEAN, THIS IS JUST THROWING THIS OUT THERE JUST FOR A THOUGHT TO THE NODES. IF THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE RESTROOMS, WE MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT INCORPORATING SPACE FOR FOOD TRUCKS TO POP UP THERE TOO, YOU KNOW, AT THE NOTES ON THE FIVE TRAIL. YEAH. AND MAYBE ONE OF THE CODE AMENDMENTS, UM, TO THE VIBE IS RIGHT. WHEREVER THERE'S A VIBE NODE OR WHERE STAFF FINDS IT APPROPRIATE TO REQUIRE A RESTROOM, YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S REQUIRED OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. THERE HAS TO BE A METRIC THOUGH. WE CAN'T JUST, YOU GOTTA BE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW OFTEN WE REQUIRE IT. THERE HAS TO BE A, THERE HAS TO BE A RATIONAL NEXUS TO IT, BUT, UM, BUT YEAH, UM, OKAY. FOR, UH, FOR ME PERSONALLY, UH, UM, I SUPPORTED THESE CHANGES EXCEPT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT A AND B COMBINED AND THAT IT WOULDN'T FACE INSIDE, UNLESS, UNLESS IT'S, UNLESS B AND THEN I, FOR AT LEAST FOR THE TIME FRAME WOULD STRIKE F AND JUST, UH, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A GOOD ANSWER, BUT, UM, BUT THE OTHER ONES, C, D AND E I'M OKAY WITH, UH, AS PART OF THE FOUR FEET, I MEAN, I'M FINE EXTENDING THAT FURTHER OR LEAVING IT AS FOUR FEET. I ACTUALLY CAN DO EITHER ONE ON THAT ONE, WHATEVER THE GROUP, AS A WHOLE WANTS TO SEE, I HAVE A QUESTION WHAT THE, A AND B THE SERVING WINDOW MAY FACE INTO THE PROPERTY. THE SERVING WINDOW MAY FACE ONTO PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY. SO YOU'RE JUST SAYING THEY COULD FACE EITHER, BUT THERE'S, THERE'S METRICS ASSOCIATED. SO A IS LIKE, SO WHERE W RIGHT NOW, UM, I THINK OF IT LIKE IN DOWNTOWN, SO RIGHT NOW YOU CAN'T BE ANYTHING, ANY WAY CLOSER, ANYWHERE, CLOSER TO 50 FEET TO THE PROPERTY LINE, ESSENTIALLY. UM, AND SO THAT REALLY LIMITS WHERE YOU CAN PUT IT ON SITE, EVEN IF YOU'RE FACING INTO THE SITE. SO IF WE STRIKE THE 50 FOOT RULE, IT CAN GO UP TO THE PROPERTY EDGE, LIKE ON A HARD CORNER. AND SO THAT IT CAN STILL FACE INTO THE PROPERTY. IT GIVES THEM MORE FLEXIBILITY WHERE THEY CAN PUT IT ON SITE, ON THE PROPERTY, NOT IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT THEN YOU CAN ALSO TURN IT IF YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT A SUFFICIENTLY WIDE SIDEWALK WHERE YOU'RE STILL SITTING INSIDE THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT YOU'RE FACING THE SERVING WINDOW OUT INTO PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY. AND MAYBE THAT'S JUST NOT A GOOD IDEA, BUT I DON'T KNOW I WENT ON A, THEY SHOULD I, SO I'M JUST WANTING TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND, LIKE, I, UNLESS B IS TRUE, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT THERE IS AN ADA COMPLIANT SIDEWALK, UNLESS THAT'S TRUE. THE EXPECTATION IS THAT THEY FACE IN, IN, YES. OKAY. SO THEY SHOULD, THEY SHALL FACE IN A LESS, LESS FAIR. OKAY. YEAH. WELL, DO ALL AGREE WITH THAT? OR DO WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT, BUT WHEN THEY FACE IN THERE STILL HAS TO BE ACCESSIBLE. YEAH. YEAH. IT'S JUST PART OF, YEAH. BUT THEY CAN'T FACE OUT UNLESS, UNLESS THERE IS A SIDEWALK ON THE OUTSIDE, THAT'S SIX FEET WIDE, RIGHT, RIGHT. SIX FEET WIDE. I'M ASSUMING A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TAKE UP A SPACE OF THREE FEET IN LINEAR FASHION, LIKE SIDE TO SIDE. AND THEN, SO YOU STILL HAVE THREE FEET FOR AN ENOUGH ROOM FOR A WHEELCHAIR TO GO AROUND THEM. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. SO I HAVE THAT AS NOTES, UM, MOVING ON TO SECTION 11 DASH 1 77 FOR FOOD COURTS. NOW, THIS IS WHERE YOU PUT ACTUALLY YOUR PERMANENT IMPROVEMENTS ON SITE. UM, FOOD COURTS ARE ALLOWED IN, UH, CBD, WANTS TO BE TO RETAIL SERVICES AND THE EAS ZONING DISTRICT AS WELL. UM, [01:15:03] I DON'T LIKE THAT. WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR A MINIMUM OF ALMOST HALF AN ACRE FOR A FOOD COURT. UM, I, I DON'T, I'M NOT A, GENERALLY, I'M NOT A FAN OF WHAT I FEEL ARE ARBITRARY, ARBITRARY MINIMUMS. I DON'T LIKE THAT. I LIKE IT TO BE FLEXIBLE TO, YOU KNOW, EACH SITE'S UNIQUE. AND IF YOU'RE ABLE TO PRACTICALLY FIT THOSE IMPROVEMENTS ON SITE, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO. SO THAT'S WHY, UM, I WANT IT TO, AND IT'S EASIER TO DO IT FROM A MEETING, THE MINIMUM ZONING DISTRICT REQUIREMENTS. UM, SO SCRATCHING THE 20,000 SQUARE FOOT WHERE, SO, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE RETAIL SERVICES ON A DISTRICT MINIMUM IS 50 FEET WIDE AND 6,000 SQUARE FEET FOR A LOT IN RETAIL SERVICES. SO THERE'S A CHANCE THAT YOU CAN FIT ONE OR TWO FOOD TRUCKS ON A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT, LOT ASSOCIATED WITH ASSOCIATED PARKING, UH, A PERMANENT RESTROOM, UM, SOME TABLES AND WHAT HAVE YOU. SO, UM, THAT'S WHAT I DID THAT, UM, THE FOOD COURT DOES HAVE A RESTAURANT. YES. OKAY. YEAH. UM, IN B FIVE, IT SAYS PERMANENT LAVATORY AND HAND-WASHING FACILITIES OF SUFFICIENT NUMBER AS DETERMINED BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL USING ICC. SO, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE KEEP REFERENCING THE BUILDING CODE, BECAUSE ZONING'S NOT GOING TO DICTATE HOW MANY, HOW MANY TOILETS YOU HAVE, AND YEAH, I WANT TO HAVE YOU, SO, UM, IN SECTION C, THIS HAS GONE BACK TO THAT FOOT RULE, WHICH WE CAN ACCOUNT FOR AND BETTER TO DO THAT. UM, SIGNAGE WILL BE DISPLAYED IN THE CORNS 11 1 76 1, OH, YOU NEED TO GET A PERMIT FOR YOUR SIGN. THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS. UM, I DON'T LIKE THAT IT WON'T EXCEED THE 12 PER ACRE. UM, I'D RATHER SEE IT JUST FROM A PRACTICAL LIMITATION OF SITE LAYOUT, THAT'S FIRE COMPLIANT, FIRE CODE COMPLIANT, DRIVE AISLES, PARKING LANDSCAPING INTENTION, WHICH WILL DICTATE THE DESIGN IN ITSELF. UM, I'M NOT, UH, THEIR FOOD TRUCKS, IF THEY'RE, IF THEY HAVE PROPER FIRE CODE SAFETY AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE SITE AND INAPPROPRIATE AND ORGANIZED MANNER, THAT'S, WHAT'S IMPORTANT IN MY, IN MY OPINION. UM, AND THAT'S IT, THAT'S, THAT'S THE ONLY UPDATES I HAVE ACTUALLY. SO ANY QUESTIONS ON 11, 1 77, I'M GOOD WITH ALL THOSE. OKAY, COOL. WELL, I WILL MAKE, LET'S SEE THE CODE EDITS ACTUALLY, WHAT I'M GOING TO BE DOING. UM, AT LEAST ON THE FOOD TRUCK SIDE, I'M GOING TO BE MAKING, UM, I'LL, I'LL HAVE SOME DISCUSSION WITH, UH, WITH THE BUILDING OFFICIAL RELATED TO THE FOREFOOT SETBACK AND, UH, FIRE CODE REQUIREMENTS. UM, AND WHAT HAVE YOU. SO, AND THEN I'LL MAKE THE EDITS, I'LL MAKE, UM, WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IN THE END. I'M GOING TO PUT A STAFF REPORT TOGETHER AND I'M GOING TO TAKE THIS TO CITY COUNCIL AND LET THEM KNOW WE'VE, WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION IN A WORKSHOP AND GET THEIR INPUT AND GO FROM THERE. AND THEN IF THEY WANT TO, IF THEY'RE AGREEABLE WITH THOSE AMENDMENTS, THEN WE'LL GO FROM THERE AND, UH, WE'LL ADVERTISE IT. AND IN NEWSPAPER, PUBLIC HEARING, ALL THAT KIND OF FUN STUFF. SO, UM, I WILL, YOU CAN'T REALLY VOTE ON IT, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL, THEY'LL, THEY'LL KNOW THAT THERE'S THE IDEA OF THE COMPOSTABLE STUFF AS WELL. SO I CAN'T VOTE ON IT TONIGHT, BUT THOSE ARE THE THREE ITEMS I HAVE ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE MOVE ON. ALL RIGHT. I DON'T REMEMBER FIVE ADJOURNMENT. UM, I MOVE THAT WE ADJOURN. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MYSELF, SECONDED BY MR. TIMMONS AND, UM, ALL IN FAVOR, SAY, AYE, AYE. I'LL POST. WE ARE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.