* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:02]
          I WAS LOOKING 
          [1.  Call meeting to order]
GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY. 
          UH, IT'S ABOUT 6 0 5 RIGHT NOW. 
          UH, MY NAME IS WK. 
          I'M THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING FOR THE RECORD. 
          THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY ATTENDING TONIGHT, CITIZENS INCLUDED AS WELL. 
          UH, THE FIRST HALF OF THIS MEETING IS GOING TO BE AN HOUR AND A HALF OF, UH, AN DISCUSSION AT THE END FROM VERITY, UH, WITH A PRESENTATION ABOUT, UH, THEIR FOCUS WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          AND HERE IN JUST A MINUTE OR SO, WE'RE GONNA INVITE, UH, KEVIN SHEPARD UP, UH, TO DO THAT PRESENTATION. 
          UM, UH, WE ARE ASKING THAT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR ANY THOUGHTS AND WHAT HAVE YOU, UH, PLEASE, UH, KEEP THEM FOR THE END OF THE FIRST HOUR AND A HALF. 
          UM, AND IF YOU FEEL FREE TO TAKE NOTES AND, AND WHAT HAVE YOU. 
          SO, UM, KEVIN, IF YOU DON'T MIND, 
          [B.  
A facilitated discussion between the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council focusing on key questions for policymaking and governance building on the information shared during preceding public open house. Specific polling questions on options for closing the fiscal gap, housing affordability, and intensity of uses will be asked. Verdunity will facilitate the dialogue and gather responses from these groups to inform the plan’s contents.
]
ALL RIGHT, LET'S, UH, SEE IF WE CAN GET THIS GOING AND, UM, ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU GUYS, HOPEFULLY OPEN SOME EYES, INFORM YOU GUYS A LITTLE BIT, ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS. 
          AS WELL SAID, MY NAME'S KEVIN SHEPHERD. 
          I'M A FOUNDER AND CEO OF VIRGINITY. 
          WE ARE A TEXAS-BASED COMMUNITY CONSULTING FIRM, UM, THAT PRIORITIZES FISCAL SUSTAINABILITY IN EVERYTHING THAT WE DO. 
          UM, ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK OUR FIRM WAS TASKED WITH LOOKING AT YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS THE COMMUNITY'S EMPHASIS, UM, ON, UH, FISCAL SUSTAINABILITY AND WANTING TO, UM, TAKE SOME OF THESE CONCEPTS AND DRIVE THAT THROUGH THE LAND USE PLAN AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT, THAT COME OUT OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN EFFORT. 
          UM, JUST TO REINFORCE A COUPLE THINGS OR BUILD ON A COUPLE THINGS THAT THAT WILL SAID. 
          I'VE GOT THIS. 
          FIRST PRESENTATION'S GONNA BE ROUGHLY 45 MINUTES. 
          MIGHT GO A LITTLE LONGER, MIGHT BE A LITTLE SHORTER EVERY TIME I DO IT. 
          DON'T REALLY KNOW. 
          SO, UM, BUT ROUGHLY 45 MINUTES IS WHAT WE'RE SHOOTING FOR. 
          AND THEN WE'VE GOT ANOTHER 30 TO 45 MINUTES TO GET QUESTIONS. 
          WE'RE GONNA FOCUS THIS FIRST PART ON FEEDBACK AND, AND QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMUNITY. 
          SO YOU ALL THAT, THAT ARE HERE. 
          I DON'T KNOW HOW, UM, THE RING CENTRAL WORKS WITH QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMUNITY. 
          IF WE HAVE PEOPLE WATCHING REMOTELY, CAN WE DO THAT? WILL YES. 
          WE, YEAH, WE'RE BETWEEN, UH, RACHEL AND I, WE ARE KEEPING AN EYE ON. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO AS I'M GOING THROUGH THIS HERE, IF YOU, UM, AJ, JUST TO INTRODUCE THE REST OF OUR TEAM REAL QUICK, SO YOU KNOW WHO'S, WHO GOT AJ FAVER, SHE'S OUR PROJECT MANAGER OVER THERE. 
          UM, WE'VE GOT KARINA CASTILLO, AND THEN WE'RE MARSHALL, OH, AND THEN MARSHALL HINES, MARSHALLS MOZA AROUND TAKING PHOTOS. 
          UM, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ONE OR TWO INDEX CARDS TO WRITE SOME QUESTIONS ON, UM, AS WE GO, WE'VE GOT SOME OVER THERE FOR YOU. 
          UM, I KNOW SOMETIMES AS YOU'RE LISTENING SOMETHING YOU MIGHT HAVE A QUESTION, LIKE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PRESENTATION. 
          SO IF YOU WANT, UH, IF YOU WANT AN INDEX CARD, RAISE YOUR HAND, AJ OR, OR KARINA, ONE OF THEM CAN BRING THAT TO YOU. 
          GOT NOTES. 
          PERFECT. 
          UM, SO YEAH, JUST, UM, I'LL BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THIS QUICKER. 
          USUALLY MOST OF YOUR QUESTIONS ARE GETTING GET ANSWERED OR AT LEAST ADDRESSED TO SOME, UM, TO SOME EXTENT IN THE PRESENTATION, BUT THEN WE'LL HAVE SOME FOLLOWING CONVERSATION AFTER THAT. 
          AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE SECOND PART OF THE, HELLO. 
          WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE SECOND PART, PART OF THE, UM, THE, THE EVENT AFTER THAT. 
          SO, UM, LET'S GET STARTED. 
          SO, CULTIVATING PROSPERITY, UM, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A FINANCIALLY RESILIENT AND PROSPEROUS COMMUNITY? UM, A COUPLE QUESTIONS THAT WE LIKE TO ASK, STARTING THIS OFF. 
          THINK ABOUT, UH, THINK ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY. 
          DO YOU FEEL LIKE KYLE RIGHT NOW HAS THE MONEY THAT IT NEEDS TO PAY FOR SERVICES AND INFRASTRUCTURE OVER TIME? HOW MUCH OF THE CITY'S REVENUE STREAM IS COMING FROM VOLATILE SOURCES? SOMETHING LIKE SALES TAX, SOMETHING LIKE REVENUE THAT'S COMING FROM NEW DEVELOPMENT, UM, VERSUS SOMETHING THAT'S MORE STABLE AND PREDICTABLE LIKE PROPERTY TAX. 
          UM, AND THEN LASTLY, CAN YOU SUSTAIN, UM, THIS CURRENT AND FUTURE, UM, OR THIS CURRENT FUTURE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN AND ALL OF THE LIABILITIES, THE STREET INFRASTRUCTURE THAT COMES WITH IT, UM, AND STILL KEEP KYLE AFFORDABLE FOR THE FOLKS THAT LIVE HERE TODAY AND IN THE FUTURE? ALL OF THOSE KIND OF FORM DIFFERENT ANGLES AT WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE FISCALLY SUSTAINABLE, BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S ABOUT DOES THE CITY HAVE THE MONEY IT NEEDS TO PROVIDE QUALITY SERVICES AND MAINTAIN INFRASTRUCTURE OVER TIME, NOT JUST, CAN YOU DO IT TODAY OR FOR 20 YEARS, OR FOR 30 YEARS? HOW DO YOU DO IT IN PERPETUITY? SO THE SUBURBAN EXPERIMENT, THIS IS, IS SOMETHING THAT CHUCK MORONE FROM STRONG TOWNS, UM, CAME UP WITH OVER A DECADE AGO. 
          AND REALLY WHAT IT TALKS ABOUT IS POST WORLD WAR II, UM, THE INVENTION OF THE CAR, SOME OF THE CHANGING IN, IN CHANGES IN HOUSING POLICY, WE SHIFTED FROM A VERY SLOW INCREMENTAL GROWTH PATTERN WHERE WE BUILT OUR CITIES A LITTLE INCREMENTALLY OVER TIME AND WE SWITCHED TO BUILDING IT MUCH FASTER, BUILDING OUR CITIES BIGGER, LOTS, BIGGER NEIGHBORHOODS, BIGGER SUBDIVISIONS, AND BUILDING IT ALL BIGGER AND FASTER. 
          AND WHAT SOME WOULD SAY TO A FINISHED STATE. 
          SO WE, WE SAY THIS IS GOING TO BE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL AND IT'S GONNA STAY THIS WAY FOR FOREVER VERSUS 
          [00:05:01]
BUILDING SOMETHING IN A WAY THAT CAN EVOLVE AND CHANGE OVER TIME, RIGHT? BUT AS OUR CITIES HAVE BEEN PURSUING THIS FAST GROWTH, THEY'VE, THEY'VE BEEN PURSUING THE GROWTH IN THE NEAR TERM. 
          THEY'VE BEEN INVESTING IN SOME QUALITY LIFE THINGS. 
          MAYBE IT'S A REC CENTER, MAYBE IT'S PARK SYSTEM, WHAT HAVE YOU. 
          UM, WE HAVEN'T BEEN KEEPING OUR EYE ON OR FULLY CONSIDERING THE LONG-TERM COSTS AND IMPACTS THAT COME WITH THAT. 
          UM, WE'RE TALKING MOSTLY ABOUT FISCAL, BUT THERE'S ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS THAT COME WITH DEVELOPMENT. 
          THERE'S SOCIAL IMPACTS THAT COME WITH DEVELOPMENT, BUT WE HAVE BEEN SO FOCUSED ON WHAT'S THE AD, WHAT'S THE VALUE TO OUR COMMUNITY TODAY THAT WE DON'T ALWAYS THINK ABOUT? WHAT'S THAT COST IN THE FUTURE, RIGHT? UM, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND PART OF THAT TEXT DOWN THERE, WE, WE DON'T ALWAYS LIKE TO HAVE A LOT OF TEXT ON THE SLIDES, BUT SOMETIMES IF THERE'S SOMEBODY THAT'S WATCHING THIS LATER THAT CAN'T HEAR ME PRESENT IT OR HEAR US TALKING ABOUT IT, WE WANT TO HAVE ENOUGH THERE THAT TO GIVE HIM SOME SOMETHING TO GO BY. 
          BUT THAT SECOND PART TALKS ABOUT THE, THE, THE GROWTH MODEL. 
          THE PRIVATE SECTOR WILL BUILD THIS, RIGHT? THE PRIVATE SECTOR'S GONNA COME IN, THEY'RE GONNA BUILD THE STREETS, THE WATER, THE SEWER, THE DRAINAGE, THE PARKS, EVERYTHING THAT COMES WITH THAT DEVELOPMENT. 
          BUT THE CITY AND THE TAXPAYERS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE ON THE HOOK TO PAY FOR THAT IN THE FUTURE, RIGHT? SO WHAT ABOUT MAINTENANCE AFTER GROWTH? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE GROWTH SLOWS DOWN? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE STREETS AND THE HOMES AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE PUT IN 20 OR 30, 40 YEARS AGO? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY START TO AGE AND NEED TO BE, NEED TO BE MAINTAINED OR NEED TO BE REINVESTED IN? THESE ARE ALL REAL PICTURES. 
          UM, THESE ARE PLACES, UH, A LOT OF WHAT HAS INFORMED MY, MY APPROACH, MY THOUGHTS, OUR PRINCIPLES FOR OUR PHILOSOPHY, FOR OUR FIRM, UM, CAME FROM AROUND THE LAST RECESSION, OH 8, 0 9 20 10, WHEN I WAS TRAVELING AROUND THE COUNTRY WORKING IN DIFFERENT PLACES, DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, BIG CITY, SMALL CITY, EAST COAST, WEST COAST, RURAL, URBAN. 
          IT DIDN'T MATTER. 
          MOST OF THE CITIES THAT WE WORKED IN DID NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY NEEDED TO MAINTAIN THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE. 
          AND SO I STARTED TO ASK WHY, RIGHT? AND IT COMES BACK TO THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN. 
          IF YOU THINK ABOUT HOW MOST OF OUR CITIES GROW, ESPECIALLY MORE OF OUR SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES, LIKE AKA, YOU START OUT AS A SMALL ON ON, YOU START ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THIS CHART. 
          YOU START OUT AS A SMALL COMMUNITY. 
          YOU HAVE THE OLD KIND OF HISTORIC PART OF TOWN WHERE WE ARE, RIGHT? UM, THIS AREA GETS A LITTLE OLDER. 
          YOU DON'T ADD A LOT OF POPULATION, BUT THE, THE STREETS, THE DEVELOPMENT STARTS TO AGE A LITTLE BIT, RIGHT? THEN YOU GET IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS CHART WHERE YOUR POPULATION, ALL OF A SUDDEN THE GROWTH COMES TO YOU, RIGHT? SO THE POPULATION STARTS TO SKYROCKET. 
          THE DEVELOPERS ARE COMING IN. 
          YOU'RE PUTTING LOTS OF NEW RESIDENTIAL, LOTS OF NEW COMMERCIAL. 
          AND SO AS YOU DRIVE AROUND TOWN, THE MOST OF THE COMMUNITY LOOKS NEW, RIGHT? SO THE AVERAGE AGE OF YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE IS GOING DOWN CUZ YOU'RE BUILDING A LOT OF NEW, AND THE AMOUNT OF THE OLD STUFF THAT YOU HAVE IS RELATIVELY SMALL, RIGHT? THIS IS WHERE KYLE IS RIGHT NOW. 
          THIS IS WHAT CHUCK FROM STRONG TOWNS CALLS THE ILLUSION OF WEALTH. 
          YOU LOOK AROUND AND YOU SEE EVERYTHING AND IT'S SHINING NEW NEIGHBORHOODS, SUBDIVISIONS, SCHOOLS, PARKS, AND ALL OF THAT, RIGHT? BUT HOW ARE WE GONNA PAY FOR THAT ON THE BACK END? IF YOU PUSH TO THE RIGHT OF THIS CHART, WHAT YOU START TO SEE WHEN YOU STUDY CITIES IS THEY RUN OUT OF THE LAND TO DEVELOP. 
          SO THE GREENFIELD LAND, THE LAND FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT, YOU START TO RUN OUT OF THAT LAND. 
          SO THE REVENUE THAT THE CITY GETS FROM NEW DEVELOPMENT, THE DEVELOPMENT FEES, WHETHER IT COULD BE ADDITIONAL TAX, YOU KNOW, TAX BUMP AS WELL. 
          BUT A LOT OF TIMES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST DEVELOPMENT REVENUES THAT STARTS TO SLOW DOWN. 
          AND AT THE SAME TIME, YOU START TO SEE THAT HAPPEN, ALL OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WAS BUILT BY THOSE DEVELOPERS 20 OR 30 OR 40 YEARS AGO HAS TO BE FIXED. 
          AND THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE WHEN YOU START TO STUDY DETROIT, A FERGUSON, A MEMPHIS, A SHREVEPORT, A LOT OF THE OLDER COMMUNITIES, THEY WENT THROUGH THE GROWTH PHASE, THEY FLATTENED OUT AND THEY COULDN'T MAINTAIN EVERYTHING. 
          THEY HAVE TO START MAKING CHOICES ON WHAT NEIGHBORHOODS ARE WE GONNA SAVE AND WHICH ONES ARE WE GONNA LET GO. 
          WHEN YOU START TO LET THEM GO, I E NOT TAKING CARE OF THE STREETS OR THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE FOLKS WITH THE WEALTH THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE WILL, THEY MIGHT MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE IN YOUR COMMUNITY. 
          THEY MIGHT MOVE OUT OF THE COMMUNITY ALTOGETHER, RIGHT? SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THIS PROCESS, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW KYLE IS GONNA GROW IN THE FUTURE, YES, WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT DO YOU WANT, WHAT, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE IN THE COMMUNITY? WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IT? BUT WE'RE TRYING TO GROUND IT BACK IN. 
          HOW CAN KYLE GROW IN A WAY THAT'S GONNA FLATTEN THIS CURVE SO THAT YOU CAN KEEP UP WITH MAINTAINING WHAT THE DEVELOPERS PUT IN ON THE FRONT END. 
          SO THIS IS JUST A, A SLIDE OF THAT'S WEIRD. 
          IT HAS LIKE A DELAY ON THAT ONE. 
          UM, THIS IS A SLIDE THAT SHOWS JUST KIND OF ILLUSTRATES THE, THE WHAT, WHAT I LIKE TO CALL OR WHAT, OR WHAT WE CALL THE RESOURCE GAP. 
          AND IT JUST FOCUSES ON STREETS AND PROPERTY TAXES. 
          IF YOU LOOK AT THIS CUL-DE-SAC STREET, YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT REALLY BENEFIT FROM THIS STREET ARE THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE ON THAT CUL-DE-SAC, RIGHT? THE MAJORITY 
          [00:10:01]
OF THE COMMUNITY'S NOT DRIVING UP AND DOWN THAT STREET, RIGHT? IF YOU LOOK AT THE COST TO REBUILD THAT, AND THESE ARE, THESE ARE CONSERVATIVE ON THE LOW END NUMBERS, UH, A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CONSTRUCTION COSTS, IT CAN BE A LOT MORE. 
          UH, BUT THE COST TO REBUILD JUST THAT PORTION OF STREET 231,000, UM, THE LIFE CYCLE OF IT, BECAUSE IT'S AN ASPHALT STREET, YOU'RE GONNA GET ROUGHLY 20 YEARS OUT OF IT. 
          UM, THE TAX REVENUE, THE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE THAT YOU GET FROM THOSE ADJACENT PROPERTIES IS 32,000. 
          SO IF YOU TOOK 100% OF THAT PROPERTY TAX REVENUE, THAT 32, 30 2000, AND YOU PUT IT TOWARDS NOTHING BUT THAT STREET, YOU COULD PAY IT OFF IN SEVEN YEARS, ROUGHLY A THIRD OF THE LIFE OF THE STREET. 
          BUT A HUNDRED PERCENT OF OUR PROPERTY TAX REVENUE DOES NOT GO TO JUST STREETS, RIGHT? WE HAVE OTHER THINGS THAT NEED OUR MONEY, RIGHT? UM, IF YOU TOOK, RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE SPENDING ROUGHLY 8% OF YOUR GENERAL FUND ON STREETS BETWEEN MAINTENANCE AND RECONSTRUCTION. 
          SO IF YOU TAKE 8% OF THAT PROPERTY TAX REVENUE AND PUT IT TOWARDS THIS STREET, IT WOULD TAKE YOU 90 YEARS TO PAY IT OFF. 
          FOUR AND A HALF TIMES THE LIFE OF THE STREET, RIGHT? UM, IF YOU WANTED TO BREAK EVEN, YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE 36% OF YOUR PROPERTY TAX REVENUE AND PUT IT TOWARDS THE STREET TO PAY IT OFF IN 20 YEARS. 
          SO THIS IS JUST ONE CASE STUDY. 
          THIS IS ONE EXAMPLE. 
          BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE STREETS ACROSS THE CITY BUILDING THEM LIKE THIS, YOU CAN START TO SEE WHY WE'RE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND IN OUR STREET FUNDING, RIGHT? SO IN MOST CASES, MOST OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT, THAT WE'VE STUDIED AND OTHERS THAT DO SIMILAR WORK TO US, UM, THIS AUTOCENTRIC, THIS POST WORLD WAR II DEVELOPMENT PATTERN WHERE YOU'RE BUILDING A LOT ALL AT ONCE IN A SPREAD OUT PATTERN, IT STRUGGLES TO GENERATE ENOUGH PROPERTY TAX REVENUE TO PAY FOR ALL OF THE SERVICES AND INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIRED TO SERVE IT. 
          SO WHAT HAPPENS IS WE FILL THAT GAP WITH SALES TAX. 
          SALES TAX IS ALWAYS THE FIRST PLACE WE WANT TO GO. 
          WE WANT TO GO GET MORE SALES TAX SO THAT WE CAN TAKE PRESSURE OFF OF THE PROPERTY TAX, RIGHT? UM, AND RIGHT NOW, DEVELOPMENT REVENUE, REVENUE FROM NEW DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPMENT FEES IS FILLING SOME OF THAT GAP AS WELL. 
          BUT WHAT WE WANNA TALK ABOUT IS WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE QUALITY SERVICES TO EVERYONE IN THE CITY AS YOU EXPAND AND ALSO TAKE CARE OF THE STREET AND OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE THAT YOU'RE BUILDING. 
          SO THERE'S THREE OPTIONS. 
          THIS IS, THIS IS SIMPLIFYING IT DOWN A BIT, ADMITTEDLY, BUT THE FIRST OPTION HERE IS WE CAN KEEP BUILDING THE WAY THAT WE'RE BUILDING AND WE CAN RAISE TAXES. 
          WE CAN BASICALLY SAY WE'RE GONNA RAISE TAXES AND FEES TO PAY FOR WHAT WE HAVE. 
          NOBODY LIKES THAT OPTION. 
          I, I'VE DONE THIS A LOT OF TIMES. 
          I HAVE YET TO SEE ANYBODY THAT SAYS, YEAH, RAISE MY, RAISE MY TAXES. 
          YOU MIGHT SAY HOLD IT. 
          THEY MIGHT SAY, HOLD IT FLAT. 
          UM, IF I KNOW IT'S GOING TO JUST MY STREET IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          UM, BUT MOST OF THE TIME, PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT, WE'RE STARTING TO FEEL PRICED OUT, RIGHT? THE, THE HOME VALUES ARE GOING UP. 
          THE TAX RATES ARE GOING UP, SO THERE'S PRESSURE THAT THE COUNCIL LEVEL TO HOLD OR EVEN LOWER THAT PROPERTY TAX RATE. 
          I COULD GIVE YOU EXAMPLES OF OTHER CITIES, OLDER CITIES THAT HAVE A MUCH HIGHER TAX RATE THAN WHAT WE HAVE IN TEXAS THAT HAVE STREET FEES, THAT ARE DOING THINGS AS EXTREME AS, UH, A STREET ASSESSMENT WHERE THEY BASICALLY GO OUT AND TAKE THE, THE COST OF THE STREET, THEY FIGURE OUT WHAT IT'S GONNA COST TO REBUILD IT, HALF OF IT, THE CITY PAYS FOR IT. 
          THE OTHER HALF THEY TAKE AND THEY DIVVY IT UP ACROSS THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT LIVE ON THAT STREET AND THE BILL GOES IN THE MAILBOX AND THEY HAVE ONE YEAR TO PAY IT. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE OTHER EXTREME OF IF YOU'RE AN OLDER CITY AND YOU'RE TRYING TO CATCH UP, THAT'S WHAT SOME ARE DOING. 
          SOME ARE LETTING STREETS GO BACK TO GRAVEL. 
          SOME PEOPLE LIKE THAT BLOWS THEIR MIND THAT IN THE UNITED STATES, WE HAVE SOME CITIES THAT ARE SAYING, WE'RE LETTING SOME OF OUR STREETS GO BACK TO GRAVEL BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO MAINTAIN THEM, BUT IT IS HAPPENING. 
          SO OPTION NUMBER TWO, SO IF WE TAKE RAISING TAXES OFF THE TABLE, THE SECOND OPTION IS HOW CAN WE REDUCE SERVICES? HOW CAN WE, HOW CAN WE ALIGN OUR SERVICES WITH THE REVENUE THAT WE HAVE COMING IN? THIS IS BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY. 
          WE'RE LOOKING AT IF WE HAVE A BOND ELECTION, IF WE HAVE A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, IF WE HAVE, UH, WATER RATES, RIGHT? WE ADD UP EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED AND WE SAY, HERE'S HOW MUCH WE'RE GONNA NEED TO PAY FOR THAT, AND THEN WE SET THE RATE AT SOMETHING THAT'S MORE TOLERABLE, RIGHT? OR WE SAY, WE CAN DO, UH, A BOND ELECTION FOR STREETS AND WE REALLY NEED TO FIX ALL OF THESE, BUT WE ONLY HAVE SO MUCH MONEY, SO WE'RE GONNA GO FIX THESE 10 STREETS OR THIS 10%, WHATEVER IT IS. 
          THE OTHER ONES GET PUSHED TOO OUT INTO THE FUTURE. 
          AND YOU SEE THAT HAPPEN AND HAPPEN AND HAPPEN, AND WE END UP PUNTING AND DEFERRING AND DEFERRING. 
          AND THEN YOU END UP THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE DOING MORE AND MORE BOND ELECTIONS, THE THE GAP THAT YOU HAVE TO FUND KEEPS GROWING. 
          LIKE WE DON'T SEE VERY MANY CITIES WHERE THAT GAP GOES. 
          THAT GAP GOES DOWN. 
          [00:15:01]
SO THE OTHER WAY TO REDUCE SERVICES IS, OKAY, WE TAKE THE MONEY THAT WE HAVE. 
          AND SO WE SAY, OH, WE CAN ONLY HAVE SO MANY POLICE OVERS OFFICERS. 
          OR IN AN EXTREME CASE, SOMEWHERE LIKE IN MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE, THEY ACTUALLY D ANNEX, THEY STARTED TO SHRINK THE SIZE OF THEIR CITY TO ALIGN WITH THE REVENUE THAT THEY HAD COMING IN. 
          NOBODY. 
          SO LET'S SAY WE DON'T WANNA REDUCE OUR SERVICES, WE WANNA MAINTAIN THE SERVICES THAT WE HAVE. 
          WHAT'S THE THIRD OPTION? WE CALL THIS DEVELOP RESPONSIBLY. 
          WHAT IS, WHAT IS RESPONSIBLY MEAN? THIS BASICALLY MEANS HOW CAN WE GROW, HOW CAN WE DEVELOP IN A WAY THAT ALIGNS OUR CITY'S BUSINESS MODEL WITH WHAT WE'RE WILLING AND ABLE TO PAY FOR? SO, AND NOT JUST NOW, BUT ALSO IN THE FUTURE. 
          SO HOW CAN WE USE AND LEVERAGE THE GROWTH THAT IS COMING TO GROW IN A WAY THAT'S GONNA HELP US KIND OF FLATTEN THAT CURVE AND CLOSE THOSE GAPS? HOW CAN WE BUILD MORE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S GONNA BRING ENOUGH IN REVENUE IN TO PAY FOR THOSE COSTS? AND IF YOU DO ENOUGH OF THAT, AND IF YOU DO IT IN THE RIGHT PLACES, YOU CAN CLOSE THOSE GAPS WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE THE TAX RATE. 
          SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT DEVELOPING, WHEN RESP RESPONSIBLY, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT KYLE'S FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND WHERE GROWTH IS GONNA GO, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND TRADE-OFFS. 
          EVERY DECISION THAT HAPPENS IN A CITY, EVERY DECISION THAT COUNCIL MAKES IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THERE'S TRADE-OFFS, RIGHT? EVERYBODY, SORRY, SORRY, BLACK THING. 
          EVERYBODY SAYS I WANT STABLE SERVICES. 
          YOU WANT PREDICTABLE PUBLIC SAFETY, TRASH COLLECTION, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMER SERVICE FROM STAFF, ALL ALL OF THE SAME. 
          WE WANT STABLE SERVICES, RIGHT? UM, WE ALSO WANT LOW TAXES, AND MOST OF US WILL SAY WE ALSO WANT LOW DENSITY. 
          RIGHT? VERY, VERY HARD TO GET ALL THREE OF THOSE. 
          THE ONLY, THE ONLY WAY THAT THAT'S REALLY POSSIBLE IS IF YOU'RE IN A RURAL ENVIRONMENT AND THE DEFINITION OF STABLE SERVICES IS YOU KIND OF LIVE OUT IN THE STICKS AND YOU KNOW IT'S GONNA TAKE FIRE LONGER TO GET THERE, RIGHT? UM, SO THE DEFINITION OF STABLE SERVICES IS MAY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A LITTLE MORE MODIFIED FOR, UH, FOR A RURAL ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU COULD HAVE HIGH DENSITY, YOU COULD HAVE LOW TAXES. 
          IT'S JUST THE DEFINITION OF SERVICES CHANGES A LITTLE BIT. 
          WHAT YOU CAN HAVE IS DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS OF THESE. 
          SO IF YOU WANT LOW TAXES AND LOW DENSITY, THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE SERVICE CUTS. 
          IF YOU WANT STABLE SERVICES AND LOW TAXES, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO HAVE HIGHER DENSITY. 
          IF YOU WANT LOW DENSITY AND STABLE SERVICES, THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY MORE IN TAXES THERE. 
          ONE OF THOSE HAS TO GIVE TO GET THE OTHER TWO. 
          SO WHAT WE'VE FOUND, IF WE, IF WE COME IN AND WE TALK ABOUT A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND WE SAY, OH, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT MIXED USE AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT DENSITY, AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT ROAD DIETS AND ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION, RIGHT? A LOT OF THESE VISION ZERO, I'LL JUST THROW OUT ANOTHER ONE. 
          THERE'S A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT TERMS THAT GET THROWN OUT IN PLANNING AND ENGINEERING CIRCLES THAT THE AVERAGE CITIZEN MIGHT NOT ALWAYS CONNECT WITH, RIGHT? WE, WE DON'T ALWAYS UNDERSTAND WHAT IS A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ABOUT WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO DO IN TERMS OF HOW THE COMMUNITY'S GROWING. 
          BUT WE FOUND, IF WE CAN PUT THIS IN TERMS OF DOLLARS AND CENTS, IF WE CAN MAKE THIS ABOUT WHAT ARE YOU PAYING FOR YOUR HOME TODAY? WHAT ARE YOU GONNA PAY FOR YOUR HOME IN THE FUTURE? WHAT ARE YOU PAYING IN TAXES? WHAT ARE YOU GETTING FOR THOSE TAXES? AND HOW DEVELOPMENT DECISIONS, WHERE YOU PUT THE GROWTH, WHEN YOU ALLOW THE GROWTH TO HAPPEN THERE, UM, AND HOW THAT DEVELOPMENT HAPPENS, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. 
          UM, ALL OF THOSE DECISIONS IMPACT WHAT YOU'RE PAYING TODAY, WHAT'S YOUR QUALITY OF SERVICE THAT YOU'RE GETTING TODAY. 
          BUT THEY ALSO IMPACT THOSE IN THE CITY'S ABILITY TO PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES FOR DIFFERENT TAX RATES IN THE FUTURE. 
          SO IF WE CAN FRAME THINGS THROUGH THIS IDEA OF FISCAL SUSTAINABILITY, FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, UM, WE CAN GET MORE PEOPLE TO THE TABLE AND WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT THE SOLUTIONS INSTEAD OF JUST TALKING ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT ISSUES AT, UH, AT DIFFERENT TIMES. 
          SO LET'S TALK ABOUT LAND USE FISCAL ANALYSIS. 
          I'M GONNA GET KIND OF TECHNICAL HERE FOR A LITTLE BIT, SO, SO BEAR WITH ME. 
          BUT, UM, WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO, TO UNDERSTAND IS WE HAVE TO GET A BASELINE. 
          WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW IS KYLE DOING RIGHT NOW, UM, SO THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHICH PLACES ARE PERFORMING WELL, WHICH PLACES ARE, ARE NEEDING TO GET SUBSIDIZED WITH PROPERTY TAX OR SALES TAX OR, OR OTHER, UM, OR DEVELOPMENT IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY. 
          SO THE WAY THAT WE LOOK AT THIS IS, UM, A METRIC. 
          IT'S JUST PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE. 
          SO IF YOU LOOK AT THIS MAP HERE, IT'S, IT'S ONE I LIKE TO USE JUST TO EXPLAIN IT HERE, BUT IF YOU LOOK ON THE LEFT, THIS IS DALLAS COUNTY. 
          UM, AND I LIKE IT JUST BECAUSE IT'S A REALLY STARK CONTRAST. 
          IT'S EASY TO EXPLAIN AND, AND TALK FROM, BUT ON THE LEFT YOU SEE APPRAISED VALUE. 
          THIS IS HOW WE TEND TO THINK ABOUT THE VALUE OF PROPERTY, RIGHT? YOU LOOK AT THIS AND YOU SAY, OH, THAT, THAT PROPERTY'S WORTH A 
          [00:20:01]
MILLION BUCKS OR 200, YOU KNOW, 200,000 OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS. 
          WE, WE JUST THINK ABOUT HERE'S THE VALUE OF THAT PARCEL. 
          WE DON'T ALWAYS THINK ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF WHAT'S THE SIZE OF THAT PARCEL, OR IS IT PAYING PROPERTY TAX OR NOT? IT MAY HAVE EXEMPTIONS ON IT, RIGHT? BUT IF WE LOOK AT THE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE, SO IF WE TAKE THE ACTUAL REVENUE THAT THE CITY CAPTURES IN PROPERTY TAX AND WE DIVIDE THAT BY THE SIZE OF THE PROPERTY, THE ACRES, YOU GET A REVENUE PER ACRE NUMBER. 
          THAT'S WHAT THE MAP ON THE RIGHT IS. 
          AND IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH DALLAS AT ALL, THERE'S BEEN A CONVERSATION GOING IN DALLAS FOR YEARS ABOUT THE LACK OF INVESTMENT IN SOUTH DALLAS, RIGHT? AND THE AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT THAT'S GOING IN NORTH DALLAS. 
          SO THAT DARK GREEN, THE DARKER THE GREEN IS THE HIGHER VALUE PROPERTIES. 
          I HAVE YET TO SEE A MAP ANYWHERE THAT SHOWS THE, THAT ILLUSTRATES THAT LACK OF INVESTMENT IN SOUTH DALLAS BETTER THAN THAT ONE, RIGHT? BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT THIS FROM DALLAS COUNTY, THE COUNTY ITSELF, THE COUNTY HAS TO SERVE THAT WHOLE AREA, RIGHT? THEY HAVE ROADS THAT THEY HELP MAINTAIN IN THERE, THERE'S A LOT OF UNINCORPORATED PARTS IN THERE THAT, UH, THAT THE COUNTY HAS TO, TO ASSIST WITH. 
          AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF CITIES IN THAT BOTTOM HALF OF, OF THAT AREA TOO THAT, UM, THAT HAVE SERVICES THAT THEY'RE PROVIDING, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THAT SAME REVENUE PER ACRE COMING BACK TO 'EM. 
          SO IF WE THINK ABOUT PROPERTY TAX PER ACRE IN DIFFERENT, UH, REVENUE PER ACRE AND DIFFERENT KINDS OF DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS THAT WE MIGHT BUILD IN THE COMMUNITY. 
          UM, AND LET ME STOP HERE AND SAY TOO, THIS IS IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT FROM THE CONTEXT OF IN A PROPERTY TAX STATE, LIKE TEXAS, WHAT WE BUILD, WHAT WE PUT ON THE LAND, RIGHT? THE CITY HAS A FINITE AMOUNT OF LAND. 
          WHAT YOU PUT ON THAT LAND SHOULD BRING BACK ENOUGH IN PROPERTY TAX TO PAY FOR THE STREETS AND PART OF THE PUBLIC SERVICES, RIGHT? YOU CAN, WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT RATIO SHOULD BE, BUT YOU SHOULD BE BUILDING A PATTERN. 
          WE THINK THAT, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA BUILD THIS, IT'S GONNA BRING ENOUGH BACK TO THE CITY THAT IT'S GONNA PAY FOR THAT ROAD. 
          IT DOESN'T, MOST OF THE TIME THE DEVELOPMENT OR BUILDING DOES NOT PAY FOR ALL OF THE ROADS IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN. 
          WE THINK IT IS, BUT IT DOES. 
          AND IT MIGHT PAY FOR PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE, RIGHT? IT MIGHT PAY FOR THINGS IN THE NEAR TERM, BUT IT RARELY, IT RARELY SHOWS OUT, MODELS OUT THAT IT ACTUALLY PAYS FOR, UM, THE, THE FUTURE RECONSTRUCTION. 
          SO IF WE THINK ABOUT PROPERTY TAX PER ACRE AND AND DEVELOPMENT PATTERN HERE, LET'S LOOK HERE AT A 2000 SQUARE FOOT HOME ON THREE DIFFERENT LOT SIZES, RIGHT? WE PUT IT ON THE SMALLER LOT ON THE LEFT, IT GETS ROUGHLY 15,000 PER ACRE, RIGHT? IF YOU PUT THAT SAME SIZE HOME ON A BIGGER LOT, ON A 7,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT, IT GETS LESS THAN HALF OF THAT. 
          SO UNDER 7,000 PER ACRE, RIGHT? SO THE TAKEAWAY HERE IS THE MORE BUILDING COVERAGE YOU HAVE, THE MORE BUILDING YOU PUT ON A LOT, THE HIGHER YOUR VALUE PER ACRE IS GONNA BE. 
          OKAY? UM, THE SECOND WAY TO THINK ABOUT THIS IS GOING VERTICAL, RIGHT? THE MORE STORIES YOU PUT, THE MORE VALUE PER ACRE YOU'RE GONNA GET. 
          THE SIMPLEST WAY TO THINK ABOUT THIS IS IN A RESIDENTIAL, RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION. 
          THE STREET'S THE SAME. 
          EVERYTHING'S THE SAME. 
          YOU HAVE A ONE STORY AND A TWO STORY. 
          THE TWO STORIES WORTH MORE, IT'S GONNA GET, GENERATE MORE IN PROPERTY TAX BACK TO THE CITY. 
          SO EVERYTHING THE CITY BUILDS IS GENERATING PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE BACK. 
          AND SO ARE YOU GENERATING ENOUGH IN THAT PROPERTY TAX REVENUE TO COVER THE COSTS? UM, THIS COMPARES A COUPLE OF PATTERNS, UM, DIFFERENT PATTERNS HERE IN KYLE. 
          ON THE LEFT IS 0.66 ACRES, UM, RIGHT HERE NEXT DOOR THAT GENERATES, UM, ALMOST 10,000 PER ACRE. 
          AND THIS IS JUST PROPERTY TAX. 
          UM, AND I, THERE'S A COUPLE OF CAVEATS IN HERE I WANT TO ADDRESS TOO. 
          UH, MAKE SURE I'M, I'M CLEAR HERE, BUT SO THE LEFT SIDE, YOU GOT 0.66 ACRES, 9,600 PER ACRE ON THE RIGHT, YOU'VE GOT A TYPICAL SUBURBAN PAD SITE WHERE WE'RE PICKING ON STARBUCKS HERE. 
          WE'VE HAD WHATABURGER, WE'VE HAD ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT JACK IN THE BOX. 
          UM, BUT THIS ONE IS 1.18 ACRES. 
          SO ALMOST DOUBLE THE LAND FOOTPRINT, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN THE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE, RIGHT? SO COUPLE THINGS, YES, THERE'S SALES TAX, RIGHT SALE. 
          THESE, THESE DIFFERENT BUSINESSES WILL ALSO GENERATE SALES TAX. 
          SOME OF THEM STARBUCKS, A COSTCO, THERE'S SOME OUT THERE THAT ARE KIND OF OUTLIERS AND GENERATE HIGHER SALES TAX THAN MOST. 
          UM, BUT GENERALLY SALES TAX WILL FOLLOW THE SAME TREND AS PROPERTY TAX, WHICH, WHICH IS THE MORE PEOPLE YOU PUT IN AN AREA, THE MORE TAX REVENUE YOU'RE GONNA CAPTURE. 
          SO WHETHER WE'RE TALKING PROPERTY TAX OR SALES TAX, THE MORE PEOPLE WE PUT IN AN AREA, IT'S GONNA GENERATE MORE TAX BASE BACK, BACK TO THE CITY. 
          THE SECOND THING TO POINT OUT HERE IS A QUESTION THAT, THAT HAS COME UP FREQUENTLY. 
          AND IT CAME UP EARLIER TODAY WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS, UH, SOME WITH 
          [00:25:01]
THE STAFF, BUT IT'S PARKING, RIGHT? THE ONE ON THE LEFT, THE PARKING'S IN THE STREET, RIGHT? THE ONE ON THE RIGHT, THE PARKING IS ON THE PROPERTY. 
          BUT THE THING TO FOCUS ON HERE IS JUST INSIDE THOSE BOXES, WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT LAND? SO YES, YOU'RE PARKING IN ONE CASE, YOU'RE PARKING IT ON THE, ON THE STREET ON THE LEFT. 
          BUT I COULD ALSO MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT THE, THE SUBURBAN STYLE DEVELOPMENT, IT, IT'S GOING TO, IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE MORE PARKING. 
          IN A LOT OF CASES. 
          IT REQUIRES MORE ROADS. 
          SO THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN AND HOW MUCH PARKING YOU NEED AND THE ROAD DESIGNER ALL KIND OF CONNECTED, RIGHT? SO IF YOU BUILD AUTO CENTRIC ONLY, IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE, IT'S GONNA GENERATE MORE TRAFFIC, IT'S GONNA REQUIRE MORE TRAFFIC, IT'S GONNA REQUIRE MORE ROADS, AND IT'S GONNA REQUIRE MORE PARKING. 
          UM, IF YOU BUILD IN THE MORE COMPACT, WALKABLE TYPE ENVIRONMENT, LIKE WHAT YOU SEE AROUND HERE IN A LOT OF THE OLD DOWNTOWNS, WHAT YOU SEE IS MORE OF A SHARED STRATEGY TO PARKING. 
          SO SHARED PARKING, SHARED DETENTION, SHARED OPEN SPACE. 
          AND SO YOU FIND AREAS TO PUT THAT, THAT ALL OF THE PROPERTIES AROUND THERE CAN BENEFIT FROM AS OPPOSED TO PUTTING IT ON EACH SITE, RIGHT? THE POINT WITH A LOT OF THIS STUFF IS, THIS IS JUST ANOTHER DATA POINT TO THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE CONSIDERING DEVELOPMENT AND WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT HOW KYLE IS GOING TO DEVELOP, DO YOU WANT A LOT OF LAND TO GO TOWARDS PARKING LOTS, WHICH GENERATES NOTHING IN TERMS OF TAX REVENUE TO THE CITY? UM, OR DO YOU WANNA HAVE MORE OF A MIX OF THESE? THERE'S NO, AND YOU'LL, YOU'LL HEAR ME SAY THIS PROBABLY ANOTHER TWO OR THREE TIMES THROUGH, THROUGH THIS PRESENTATION. 
          THERE'S NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO DO ALL THIS. 
          WHAT WE WANNA DO IS PUT NUMBERS TO IT AND GIVE YOU GUYS ANOTHER DATA POINT THAT SAYS WE WANT JUST LIKE A PERSONAL PERSONAL PO PORTFOLIO, YOU WANT DIFFERENT THINGS THAT YOU'RE INVESTING IN. 
          SO AS A CITY, YOU WANT TO BUILD DIFFERENT TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT THAT GIVE YOU DIFFERENT CONTEXTS THAT GIVE SOME PEOPLE THE SUBURBAN STYLE, SOME PEOPLE MORE OF THE WALKABLE AND MIXED USE TRADITIONAL STYLE, AND ALSO CHANGE UP THOSE PRICE POINTS, RIGHT? BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, AS A CITY, YOU WANT TO PENCIL OUT, YOU WANT ALL OF IT TO ADD UP AND BRING IN THE REVENUE THAT YOU NEED TO COVER THE COST. 
          UM, ANOTHER EXAMPLE, I'M ZOOMING OUT A LITTLE BIT. 
          THIS IS DOWNTOWN SAN MARCOS. 
          I CAN'T SEE. 
          SO 0.42 OR 42 ACRES ON THE LEFT, 41 ACRES OR 40 ACRES ON THE RIGHT, THE TRADITIONAL DOWNTOWN PATTERN VERSUS THE BIG BOX. 
          YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE, RIGHT? AGAIN, SALES TAX, THE BIG BOXES WILL GENERATE SOME SALES TAX. 
          THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE COULD TALK ABOUT AS FAR AS SUSTAINING THAT LONG TERM. 
          YOU KNOW, UM, YOU'VE PROBABLY HEARD ABOUT WALMARTS THAT GO FOR A WHILE AND THEN THEY'RE DONE. 
          UM, THAT TRADITIONAL PATTERN ON THE LEFT, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RESILIENCY, WHEN A BUILDING OR WHEN A BUSINESS GOES OUT IN THE TRADITIONAL PATTERN, A NEW ONE CAN GO IN, RIGHT? THE STREET'S THERE, THE BUILDING'S THERE, EVERYTHING'S THERE. 
          YOU CAN JUST SWAP OUT A BUSINESS. 
          WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MORE OF THE BIG BOX STUFF, AND WE HAVE SEVERAL PROJECTS RIGHT NOW THAT WE'RE DOING CIVIL ON THAT WE'RE TRYING TO RETROFIT SOME OF THESE, THE OPTIONS THAT YOU HAVE TO RETROFIT THAT ONE ON THE RIGHT ARE VERY, VERY LIMITED, RIGHT? AGAIN, NOT ONE OR THE OTHER, BUT WE'RE BUILDING FAR, FAR MORE, MUCH, MUCH MORE OF THE ONES ON THE RIGHT, RIGHT? THE SUBURBAN PAD SITES, THE BIG BOX SITES. 
          WE'RE BUILDING A LOT OF THAT AND WE'RE CODING OUT, WE'RE, WE'RE MAKING IT A LOT HARDER TO BUILD THIS STUFF ON THE LEFT. 
          WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS FROM A HOMEOWNER'S PERSPECTIVE, WHAT'S THE TAXPAYER'S LIABILITY, RIGHT? COUPLE THINGS. 
          THIS JUST TO, THERE'S A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT VARIABLES THAT WE'LL LOOK OUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS AND, AND THINGS THAT DRIVE COSTS AND REVENUES. 
          UH, BUT WHEN, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND A STREET, THE WIDTH OF THE STREET AND THE WIDTH OF THE LOTS DIRECTLY IMPACTS THE HOUSEHOLDS, THE PER HOUSEHOLD COST TO REPLACE THAT STREET. 
          SO THIS SHOWS 31 FOOT WIDE STREET, 70 FOOT LOTS, UM, ROUGHLY A $532,000 STREET REPLACEMENT COST. 
          THAT'S 19,000 PER LOT TO FIX THAT STREET. 
          OKAY? IF WE REDUCE THAT STREET BY FOUR FEET, IF WE GO FROM 31 FEET DOWN TO 27 FEET AND WE PUT 50 FOOT LOTS INSTEAD OF SEVENTIES, THAT COST PER LOT GOES DOWN TO 12,000. 
          SO JUST BY CHANGING THE WIDTH OF THE STREET AND THE WIDTH OF THE LOTS, YOU CHANGE WHAT THAT COST PER HOUSEHOLD IS, RIGHT? SO IF YOU'RE HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT, AND I, I HAVE THIS WITH MY WIFE ALL THE TIME AND SOME OF OUR FRIENDS ABOUT JUST THE WIDTH OF OUR STREETS AND HOW FAST CARS DRIVE. 
          AND I'LL SAY I'M AN ENGINEER BY DEGREE, AND I WILL TELL YOU, IF YOU WANT TO SLOW CARS DOWN IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOODS, NARROW THE STREET, YOU CAN PUT COPS, YOU CAN HAVE STOP SIGNS, YOU CAN DO ALL THAT. 
          IF YOU SPEED HUMPS, YOU CAN DO ALL OF THOSE OTHER THINGS. 
          IF YOU REALLY WANT TO SLOW CARS DOWN IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOODS, SLOW THE STREET OR NARROW THE STREETS, IT FORCES YOU TO DRIVE SLOWER WHEN IT'S WIDE, WHEN IT'S 31 FOOT WIDE AND IT'S LONG AND STRAIGHT, YOU CAN GO A LONG WAY LOOKING AT YOUR PHONE BEFORE YOU EVER HIT 
          [00:30:01]
SOMETHING, RIGHT? LITTLE SIDETRACK ON SAFETY, BUT IT ALL KIND OF COMES BACK TO THE NUMBERS TOO. 
          SO IF WE THINK ABOUT AT A HIGH LEVEL HIGH, THE, THE HIGHEST RETURNING PARCELS, IF WE WANNA SAY WE WANT TO MAXIMIZE REVENUE PER ACRE, UM, IN OUR COMMUNITY, THESE ARE THE, THESE ARE THE TRENDS THAT WE SEE, NOT JUST IN KYLE, BUT IN A LOT OF THE DIFFERENT PLACES THAT WE'VE MODELED. 
          YOU SEE A HIGH RATIO OF BUILDING FOOTPRINT TO LOT COVERAGE. 
          SO YOU'RE PUTTING MORE BUILDING ON THE LOT, UM, MULTI-STORY STRUCTURES. 
          THE MORE YOU GO VERTICAL, THE MORE VALUE BREAKER YOU'RE GONNA GET. 
          NARROW LOT FRONTAGE. 
          SO THE NARROWER LOTS DO BETTER. 
          UM, YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT BLOCK OF STREET AND THE MORE, THE MORE HOUSES YOU CAN PUT ON A STREET, THE MORE UNITS YOU CAN PUT ON A STREET, THE MORE THAT SPREADS THE COST BURDEN OUT TO EACH LOT. 
          AND, UM, AND IMPROVE, UH, IMPROVES THEIR, THEIR FISCAL PRODUCTIVITY ON JUST A LOT TO LOT BASIS. 
          UM, SMALLER LOTS DO BETTER. 
          UM, AND THEN WHEN YOU ZOOM OUT A LITTLE BIT, AND YOU LOOK AT THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, THE TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD, GRIDED STREETS DO A LOT BETTER THAN THE SUBURBAN, WHAT I CALL THE LOOPS AND LOLLIPOPS, RIGHT? UM, THERE IS NOTHING MORE COSTLY TO A CITY THAN CUL-DE-SACS. 
          CUL-DE-SACS ARE GREAT TO LIVE ON PEOPLE LIKE THE PRIVACY OF THEM, BUT FROM A SERVICE PERSPECTIVE OF POLICE AND FIRE AND TRASH, THEY'RE VERY, VERY INEFFICIENT. 
          SO DO YOU WANT SOME? ABSOLUTELY. 
          UM, BUT DO YOU WANT TO HAVE AS MANY AS WE BUILT IN SOME PLACES? YOU KNOW, MAYBE, UM, MAYBE NOT. 
          SO SOME OF THIS WILL COME TO PLAY IN LIKE A ZONING CODE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          UM, BUT FROM ALAN, USE PERSPECTIVE, FROM A A COMP PLAN PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, JUST THINKING ABOUT WHAT ARE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE THINGS THAT GENERATE THE MOST VALUE, ACER BACK TO OUR CITY SO THAT WE CAN GENERATE MORE REVENUE WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE THE TAX RATE, RIGHT? SO WE WENT THROUGH A PROCESS HERE WE CALL ALAN, USE FISCAL ANALYSIS ALOFA. 
          THERE'S THREE STEPS THAT WE, THAT WE WENT THROUGH HERE. 
          THE FIRST STEP IS WE LOOKED AT THE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE. 
          SO WE JUST TAKE, HERE'S THE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE THAT, THAT EVERY, UH, PARCEL IN THE CITY GENERATES. 
          WE DIVIDE IT BY THE, THE ACREAGE, AND YOU GET THAT LEVY PER ACRE NUMBER. 
          WE USE THE DATA DIRECTLY FROM THE APPRAISAL DISTRICT. 
          Y'ALL'S APPRAISAL DISTRICT IS A LITTLE WONKY WITH HOW, WITH SOME OF THEIR DATA. 
          I KNOW WILL'S FAMILIAR WITH IT. 
          WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT WITH SOME OF STAFF, BUT THERE'S, IT'S NOT AS CLEAN. 
          IT WAS NOT AS CLEAN TO GO IN AND MODEL AS A LOT OF THE OTHER COUNTIES THAT WE WE'VE LOOKED AT HAVE BEEN. 
          UM, BUT YOU DO PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE FIRST, WHICH SHOWS THAT THIS IS WHAT EVERY, EVERY PROPERTY IN THE CITY IS BRINGING IN. 
          THE SECOND LEVEL THAT WE WENT TO IS SAID, WHAT'S THE GENERAL FUND COSTS BEING COVERED BY PROPERTY TAX? SO THE PORTION OF THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET THAT COMES FROM PROPERTY TAX, WHICH IS ROUGHLY 30%. 
          AND WE TAKE THOSE COSTS AND WE ALLOCATE THOSE TO THE PROPERTIES AS WELL. 
          SO YOU GET KIND OF WHAT SOME CALL THE FIRST RED GREEN MAP OR PROFIT AND LOSS MAP THAT SHOWS HERE'S WHAT THE PROPERTIES ARE BRINGING IN, IN REVENUE. 
          HERE'S WHAT THEY COST TO SERVE. 
          SOME, SOME GENERATE MORE IN REVENUE THAN THEY COST, SOME COST MORE THAN THEY, UM, TO SERVE, THAN THEY BRING IN. 
          UM, THE THIRD LEVEL THAT WE LOOK AT IS IF WE LOOKED AT WHAT DOES THE CITY REALLY NEED FOR STREETS? WHAT DOES THE CITY REALLY NEED TO PAY FOR ALL OF THE STREETS THAT YOU'VE BUILT? AND WE ADD THAT IN, UM, AND THEN WE LOOK AT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. 
          SO OUR GOAL WITH ALL OF THIS, AND I'M GONNA SHOW YOU THE KYLE NUMBERS HERE IN A SECOND, AND SOME OF THE TAKEAWAYS THAT WE HAVE FROM THEM, BUT WE WANT TO USE THIS AS THE BASELINE TO INFORM YOUR LINEAGE MAP. 
          WE WANT TO PUT THIS AND MAKE THIS ABOUT WHERE AND WHEN AND HOW YOU GROW TO CLOSE THAT GAP OVER TIME, RIGHT? WE DON'T WANT, OR IF YOU'RE GOING TO CHOOSE TO MAKE IT A A DIFFERENT WAY, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE COSTS COMING THAT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, PAID IN THE FUTURE AND HAVE A STRATEGY TO DO, UM, TO DO THAT. 
          AND THE LAST PART THERE IS IMPORTANT TOO. 
          UM, THIS IS ULTIMATELY ABOUT HOW CAN WE ALIGN THE GROWTH OF THE CITY WITH WHAT OUR RESIDENTS ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO PAY FOR, NOT JUST NOW, BUT IN THE FUTURE, RIGHT? WE CAN'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS AND SAY, WELL, EVERYBODY'S GONNA BE OKAY IF OUR PROPERTY VALUES CONTINUE TO GO UP 5% A YEAR OR 10% A YEAR, WHATEVER. 
          UM, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT MAKES KYLE AFFORDABLE, WHAT'S GONNA KEEP KYLE AFFORDABLE, UM, AND FOR WHOM? AND, AND ALL OF THAT, WHICH WE'RE GONNA GET INTO, UH, LATER TONIGHT. 
          SO YOU SAW THAT, THAT CHART EARLIER THAT I SHOWED THAT TALKED ABOUT THE, THE GROWTH OF A CITY, RIGHT? SO HERE'S KYLE'S GROWTH, RIGHT? UM, SLOW 1960, UP TO 2000, YOU WERE UNDER 6,000 PEOPLE. 
          AND THEN BOOM, YOUR GROWTH, YOUR GROWTH CAME, RIGHT? SO I TOLD YOU KYLE WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT CHART EARLIER, RIGHT? THERE'S THE PROOF , YOU'RE ADDING A LOT OF PEOPLE IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. 
          SO LET'S SEE, FROM 2000 TO 2021. 
          SO IN 20 YEARS YOU ADDED 45,000 PEOPLE, RIGHT? 
          [00:35:03]
SO HERE'S YOUR BUDGET BREAKDOWN. 
          AND THIS IS SOMETHING TO THIS, THIS IS MORE AT A STAFF AND COUNCIL LEVEL, UH, THAT WE DIG INTO, BUT THIS ON THE LEFT SIDE SHOWS THE REVENUE BREAKDOWNS OF THE, THE GENERAL FUND. 
          YOU HAVE 16 MILLION, ROUGHLY 30% OF YOUR BUDGET COMES FROM PROPERTY TAX. 
          UM, ANOTHER 31% COMES FROM SALES TAX. 
          THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, AGAIN, KYLE HAS ADDED A LOT OF SALES TAX IN THE LAST COUPLE DECADES TOO, RIGHT? YOU'VE ADDED A LOT OF PEOPLE. 
          YOU'VE ALSO GROWN YOUR SALES TAX BASE. 
          SO YOU HAVE A 50 50 SPLIT BETWEEN PROPERTY TAX AND SALES TAX, WHICH IS REALLY GOOD, RIGHT? THAT'S ACTUALLY WHERE, WHERE WE ADVISE A LOT OF, A LOT OF CITIES TO GET IS A 50 50 SPLIT, BUT YOU HAVE 20% OF YOUR REVENUE COMING FROM DEVELOPMENT RIGHT NOW. 
          SO 20% OF YOUR GENERAL FUND IS COMING FROM DEVELOPMENT FEES ASSOCIATED WITH NEW DEVELOPMENT PERMITS, BUILDING FEES, ET CETERA, RIGHT? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOUR GROWTH SLOWS DOWN AND THAT REVENUE'S NOT COMING IN ANYMORE, IT HAS TO BE REPLACED FROM SOMEWHERE. 
          AND THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WE'RE GONNA DIG INTO WITH COUNSELING AND PLANNING COMMISSION A LITTLE BIT LATER, RIGHT? IS WHEN YOU HAVE TO REPLACE THAT, WHERE'S IT GONNA COME FROM? SALES TAX, PROPERTY TAX DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, ALL THE ABOVE. 
          IT'S GOTTA COME FROM SOMEWHERE. 
          THEN IF WE GO TO THE COST SIDE, RIGHT? THAT SHOWS KIND OF HOW YOUR GENERAL FUND COSTS ARE DIVVIED UP. 
          YOU'VE GOT 32% GOING TO POLICE, 10% GOING TO PLANNING, UM, AND YOU'RE SPENDING THEIR LITTLE, ALMOST 4 MILLION, 3.7 MILLION 8% OF YOUR BUDGET ON STREETS. 
          AND THAT'S MAINTENANCE AND RECONSTRUCTION TOGETHER THERE. 
          THAT'S JUST IN THE GENERAL FUND. 
          THERE MIGHT BE SOME TRANSFERS AND STUFF IN THERE TOO, I WOULD IMAGINE. 
          SO HERE'S THE, THE STREET QUESTION. 
          THIS IS, THIS IS JUST ONE THAT WE LIKE IT TO ASK AT A HIGH LEVEL FOR AN EXERCISE, FOR A COMP PLAN LIKE THIS. 
          WE COULD DEFINITELY DO A DEEP DIVE AND GET DEEPER INTO THIS, BUT WE DID A, JUST A HIGH LEVEL NUMBER. 
          WE SAID, LET'S LOOK AT THE STREETS THAT, THAT KYLE HAS TODAY AND SAY, WHAT WOULD IT COST IF WE WERE GONNA REBUILD THOSE STREETS. 
          UM, WE GOT A NUMBER FROM STAFF OF 750,000 A LANE MILE. 
          UM, THAT'S JUST, JUST FOR THE STREET. 
          THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE ALL OF THE OTHER STUFF OF SOME OF THE SIDEWALKS AND THE TREES AND THE LIGHTING AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT MIGHT GO WITH IT. 
          IT'S JUST THE STREET COSTS. 
          UM, AND EVEN THAT, IT'S ON THE LOW SIDE, RIGHT? I THINK TOO, IF, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT REBUILDING STREETS, ESPECIALLY IN A DOWNTOWN AREA OR AN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S MORE COSTLY TO REBUILD THAN IT IS TO GO BUILD SOMETHING BRAND NEW OUT IN THE FIELD SOMEWHERE, RIGHT? UM, BUT FOR PURPOSES OF THIS EXERCISE, WE, WE STARTED FOR CONCRETE STREETS, IT'S ONE AND A HALF MILLION. 
          UM, IT CAN BE A A LOT BIGGER. 
          I'LL TELL YOU, WE DID A MODEL BACK IN 20 17, 20 18 FOR BROWNSVILLE. 
          THEIR STREET LIABILITIES WERE OVER A BILLION DOLLARS. 
          IT WAS $65 MILLION A YEAR THAT THEY NEEDED TO BE SAVING OR SPENDING ON STREETS, AND THEY WERE SPENDING LIKE FOUR, RIGHT? YOU GUYS ARE SPENDING 3.7. 
          IF YOU JUST TAKE THAT STRAIGHT LIFE, YOU TAKE 750,000, IT'S ROUGHLY 360 MILLION BUCKS, RIGHT? 14 MILLION A YEAR OR 18 MILLION A YEAR. 
          SO YOU HAVE A ROUGH DEFICIT RIGHT NOW, 14 MILLION A YEAR THAT YOU NEED TO COME UP WITH JUST FOR WHAT'S ON THE GROUND RIGHT NOW. 
          ANY NEW STREET, ANY NEW ROAD YOU BUILD IS GONNA ADD TO THAT NUMBER, RIGHT? SO ANYTHING NEW THAT YOU BUILD NEEDS TO NOT JUST CLOSE THE GAP OR NOT JUST PAY FOR ITSELF, BUT IT ALSO NEEDS TO HELP YOU CLOSE THAT GAP. 
          THE GOOD THING IS, KYLE IS YOUNG, RELATIVELY YOUNG. 
          YOU DON'T, THESE NUMBERS AREN'T HUGE. 
          I MEAN, A LOT OF THE STUDIES WE LOOK AT ARE 800 MILLION, 900 MILLION, UM, AND A LOT OF IT IS VERY POOR CONDITION THAT NEEDED TO BE FIXED YESTERDAY, RIGHT? YOU GUYS HAVE RUNWAY, YOU'VE GOT TIME. 
          SO JUST TARGETS, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'LL GET INTO MORE WHEN WE LOOK AT OUR SCENARIO PLANNING, BUT RIGHT NOW YOU'RE GETTING $765 AN ACRE IN TERMS OF PROPERTY TAX. 
          SO ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE AVERAGING 7 65 AN ACRE. 
          SO IF YOU JUST TAKE ALL OF THE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE THAT'S COMING IN DIVIDED BY THE WHOLE SIZE OF THE CITY, YOU'RE GETTING 7 65 AN ACRE, UM, YOU NEED TO BE GETTING CLOSE TO 2000 AN ACRE TO COVER YOUR CURRENT COSTS. 
          SO YOU HAVE PARTS OF THE CITY THAT ARE VERY, VERY HIGH, HIGH PRODUCING. 
          UM, PLUM CREEK IS ONE. 
          YOU HAVE PLACES THAT ARE VERY, VERY HIGH IN TERMS OF THAT REVENUE PER ACRE. 
          AND THEN YOU HAVE A LOT OF UNDEVELOPED LAND RIGHT NOW. 
          BASICALLY THAT'S BRINGING THAT NUMBER DOWN. 
          SO THIS, SOME OF WHAT WE LOOK AT IS WHAT'S BEEN DEVELOPED, WHAT HASN'T BEEN DEVELOPED, AND HOW THESE NUMBERS, YOU KNOW, HOW THESE NUMBERS LOOK DIFFERENTLY ON THOSE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, BUT YOU'RE BUILDING SOME OF THE NEWER STUFF THAT YOU'RE BUILDING IS VERY HIGH VALUE, UM, AND CLOSING THAT GAP. 
          BUT YOU ALSO HAVE A LOT OF UNDEVELOPED AREA THAT HAS FULL SERVICE, THAT HAS INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S NOT GENERATING 
          [00:40:01]
ANY ANYTHING RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? AND THEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHERE DO YOU NEED TO GET IN THE FUTURE, THAT NUMBER COULD COME UP OR DOWN DEPENDING ON HOW YOU'RE GONNA GROW. 
          ARE YOU GOING TO ADD ALL OF THE PEOPLE INTO EXISTING AREAS? UM, ARE YOU GONNA ADD, YOU KNOW, INTO SOME GREENFIELD AREAS THAT ADD ADDITIONAL REVENUE? SO MAPS, JUST REAL QUICK TO SHOW YOU WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE, THIS IS, I GOT A REALLY BAD REFLECTION UP THERE, BUT THIS IS YOUR PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE. 
          THE DARKER THE GREEN, THE HIGHER THAT IT, THE HIGHER IT IS. 
          UM, WHEN WE ADD IN THE BUDGET COSTS, YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE PROPERTIES GO RED, UM, OR A LIGHTER SHADE OF GREEN. 
          UM, AND THEN WHEN WE ADD IN THOSE UNFUNDED STREETS, YOU CAN SEE EVEN MORE OF IT GOES RED, RIGHT? SO THIS IS TYPICAL, THIS IS A SCARE. 
          THIS IS WHAT A LOT OF PLACES LOOK LIKE. 
          A LOT OF THAT RED IS UNDEVELOPED LAND, RIGHT? BUT WHAT WE CAN DO FROM THIS IS WE CAN DIG INTO IT BECAUSE WE HAVE IT IN GIS, WHICH WE CAN LOOK AT IT BI PARCEL GOING, WE CAN MAP IT, WE CAN ALSO LOOK AT ALL THE DATA BEHIND IT AND WE CAN START TO STUDY IT AND SAY, OKAY, HOW ARE DIFFERENT PATTERNS PERFORMING? DIFFERENT LOT SIZES, DIFFERENT ZONINGS. 
          AND THIS IS ONE THAT WE DID FOR SINGLE FAMILY LOTS. 
          SO ON THE LEFT HERE IS THE LEFT SIDE OF THAT CHART IS THE SMALLEST LOTS, TWO TENTHS OF AN ACRE AND SMALLER, RIGHT? THE RIGHT SIDE OF THAT CHART IS THE BIG, THE BIG LOTS AN ACRE OR MORE THE GRAY. 
          THE HEIGHT OF THE GRAY BAR IS THE AVERAGE VALUE OF THE HOMES OR, OR THE STRUCTURES ON THOSE LOTS. 
          THAT GREEN LINE IS THE REVENUE PER ACRE FOR EACH OF THOSE CATEGORIES. 
          SO THIS TREND HAS HELD TRUE IN EVERY CITY THAT WE'VE EVER MODELED. 
          THE SMALLEST LOTS GET THE HIGHEST REVENUE PER ACRE IN THE CITY. 
          BUT WHAT WE SEE IN A LOT OF CITIES IS PUSHING TOWARDS WE WANT BIGGER LOTS, BIGGER LOTS EQUAL HIGHER, HIGHER VALUE, RIGHT? UM, AND THEY CAN, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE PRICE POINT OF THE, OF THE BIGGER LOTS AND WHAT IT TAKES FOR THOSE BIGGER LOTS TO PAY FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE OR WHAT THAT COST PER HOUSEHOLD BURDEN'S GONNA BE ON THE ROAD, RIGHT? IT'S NOT THE SAME HERE IN KYLE AS IT IS IN A LOT OF OTHER PLACES AND A LOT OF OTHER PLACES THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT. 
          THAT SMALLER CATEGORY IS ALSO THE MOST AFFORDABLE, RIGHT? THAT ALSO TENDS TO BE, SO IT'S A, A WIN-WIN IN A LOT OF WAYS IF IT'S THE, THE HIGHEST REVENUE PER ACRE TO THE CITY. 
          AND IT'S ALSO THE MOST AFFORDABLE FOR RESIDENTS. 
          SO THERE'S A LOT OF VALUE IN BUILDING SMALL THAT A LOT OF CITIES HAVE FORGOTTEN ABOUT. 
          YOU ALL ARE SOMEWHAT UNIQUE IN THAT A LOT OF YOUR NEWER RESIDENTIAL IS STILL SMALL LOTS. 
          AND I DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY HERE AND WHAT ALL THE CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN ABOUT, ABOUT SMALLER VERSUS BIGGER, BUT BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO MUCH OF YOUR NEW STUFF IN A SMALL LOT PATTERN, THAT'S WHY YOU CAN SEE PLUM CREEK, YOU CAN SEE OTH SOME OF THE OTHER NEWER RESIDENTIAL THAT'S VERY DARK GREEN. 
          IT'S PERFORMING REALLY WELL BECAUSE IT'S GOT A GOOD STRONG DEVELOPMENT PATTERN OF THE SMALLER LOTS, BUT IT ALSO HAS REALLY HIGH VALUES GOING, GOING WITH IT. 
          UM, WE ALSO, IN ADDITION TO THIS, AND, AND I DON'T HAVE ALL THIS IN THIS PRESENTATION, BUT THERE'S OTHER TABLES THAT SHOW FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT LOT SIZES, ZONING, LAND USES. 
          SO SINGLE FAMILY, MULTI-FAMILY COMMERCIAL. 
          WE SLICE AND DICE IT A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS FOR YOU. 
          THAT'S INFORMATION THAT CAN BE USED TO INFORM, UM, WHAT WE DO GOING FORWARD. 
          HERE'S YOUR NUMBER ONE IN TERMS OF REVENUE PER ACRE AND NET PER ACRE IN THE WHOLE CITY, THIS IS THE HIGHEST PRODUCING PROPERTY IN THE CITY IN TERMS OF PROPERTY TAX PER ACRE. 
          UM, IT'S A VERY, VERY SMALL LOT. 
          IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT BUILDING COVERAGE. 
          AND SO THERE'S A VERY HIGH REVENUE PER ACRE TO THAT, UH, TO THAT LITTLE BUILDING. 
          YOUR NUMBER TWO GOES UP IN SCALE A LITTLE BIT. 
          IT'S ACTUALLY RIGHT NEXT TO IT. 
          UM, IT GOES UP TO TWO STORIES. 
          AND THEN THIS IS WHAT REALLY JUMPED OUT TO OUR TEAM IS NUMBER THREE WAS THE SMALL HOME, YOU KNOW, UP IN PLUM CREEK, IT IS 0.06 ACRES. 
          IT'S TINY. 
          IT'S A 17 IN 1800 SQUARE FOOT HOME AND ITS ASSESSED VALUE IS 405,000 BUCKS. 
          SO WHEN, IF YOU GO BACK TO WHAT I STARTED THIS WHOLE PRESENTATION WITH OF THE, THE THINGS THAT MAKE A CITY FINANCIALLY SUSTAINABLE, RIGHT? VALUE PER ACRE, THIS IS CRUSHING IT. 
          THIS IS, THIS IS REALLY, REALLY GOOD, BUT IS IT AFFORDABLE FOR EVERYBODY, RIGHT? OR IS IT EVEN AFFORDABLE FOR MOST? AND SO THAT'S WHAT SOME OF THE QUESTION I THINK IN SOME OF THE DISCUSSION IN KYLE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE ABOUT IS WHERE DOES KYLE SIT ON BEING AFFORDABLE TO EVERYBODY? AND IF A SMALL HOME AND IN SOME OTHER PLACES, THE STRATEGY TO GET MORE AFFORDABLE IS GO SMALLER, RIGHT? IN THE SINGLE FAMILY CATEGORY, YOU'RE GOING ABOUT AS SMALL AS YOU CAN 
          [00:45:01]
GO IN A SINGLE FAMILY AND IT'S SELLING FOR 400, RIGHT? SO HOW DO WE FILL THAT AFFORDABILITY GAP IN DIFFERENT WAYS? WE'RE GONNA NEED TO THINK ABOUT DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOUSING. 
          WE, WE CALL IT IN THE PLANNING REALM. 
          WE CALL IT MISSING MIDDLE, BUT COTTAGES, DUPLEX, LIVE WORK, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO BUILD DIFFERENT KINDS OF HOUSING THAT IS AFFORDABLE, THAT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, UM, JUST THE STRAIGHT KIND OF GARDEN STYLE APARTMENTS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK ABOUT WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE SAY AFFORDABLE. 
          SO COMMUNITIES CAN GO DIFFERENT WAYS ON THIS. 
          YOU CAN SAY, WE, WE WANT A PENCIL. 
          WE WANT TO BUILD A PATTERN THAT'S GOING TO BE FISCALLY SUSTAINABLE AND PENCIL OUT. 
          UM, BUT WE'RE GONNA DO IT THIS WAY. 
          WE'RE GONNA BUILD VERY HIGH VALUE STUFF LIKE THIS THAT PAYS THE BILLS. 
          BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, AND YOU HAVE TO OWN THAT, THAT MEANS YOUR COMMUNITY'S NOT GONNA BE AFFORDABLE FOR ENTRY LEVEL PROFESSIONALS, YOU KNOW, ET CETERA. 
          SO YOU, YOU JUST HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT WHOLE SPECTRUM OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN ATTRACTIVE AND SUSTAINABLE PLACE OVER TIME FOR, UH, FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS. 
          UM, ONE OF THE FASTEST WAYS TO CLOSE THE GAP IS IN FIELD DEVELOPMENT. 
          UH, AND I'M GONNA PROVIDE A LITTLE MORE DETAIL HERE IN JUST SMALL LOT, ONE LOT AT A TIME. 
          IF YOU LOOK AT, IF YOU LOOK AT KYLE, IF YOU LOOK AT ANY COMMUNITY, THERE'S VACANT LOTS EVERYWHERE THAT THEY'RE RIGHT, THEY'RE FULL SERVICE. 
          THEY'VE GOT FULL STREET UTILITY, POLICE, FIRE, EVERYTHING, AND THEY'RE VACANT, RIGHT? THAT'S COSTING THE CITY. 
          THE CITY IS PAYING TO SERVE THAT LOT AND THE TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING TO SERVE THAT LOT, BUT YOU'RE NOT RECOUPING ANYTHING BACK. 
          NOW, YOU CAN'T FORCE A PROPERTY OWNER IN TEXAS TO GO BUILD, RIGHT? IF THEY WANNA SIT ON IT, THAT'S THEIR RIGHT TO SIT ON IT. 
          UM, BUT JUST BEING AWARE OF THAT AND SAYING, WELL, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE 10,000 PEOPLE COMING TO KYLE, DO WE WANT TO PUT THEM INTO VACANT LOTS AND SEE HOW MUCH OF OUR VACANT LOTS CAN CAPTURE MORE OF THOSE PEOPLE? UM, OR DO WE WANT TO GO PUT THEM IN GREENFIELD DEVELOPMENT THAT REQUIRES MORE INFRASTRUCTURE AND, AND SERVICES? UH, BUT YOU CAN SEE JUST BY PUTTING SMALL INFILL UNITS INTO NEIGHBORHOODS, WHAT, HOW YOU CAN BOOST THAT TAX REVENUE, YOU'RE NOT IMPACTING THE SERVICE COSTS HERE HARDLY AT ALL. 
          NOW, IF YOU GET ENOUGH OF THESE IN ONE PLACE, OR IF YOU BUILD TWO STORY OR THREE STORY A HIGHER DENSITY, YOU MIGHT GET TO A POINT THAT IT STARTS TO PUT PRESSURE ON YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE THAT REQUIRES YOU TO UPSIZE INFRASTRUCTURE IN DOWNTOWN, RIGHT? BUT, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS MORE AS WE GO THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE PROCESS AND, AND WITH STAFF. 
          BUT THIS, THE INFILL, THAT TRADITIONAL PATTERN TENDS TO GENERATE ENOUGH REVENUE TO COVER. 
          EVEN IF YOU'RE PUTTING MORE INVESTMENT IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE, IT STILL COVERS THAT COST BECAUSE THE VALUE BREAKER IS SO MUCH HIGHER. 
          SO THE TAKEAWAYS, JUST THE BIG TAKEAWAYS THAT WE SAW IN DOING THIS BASELINE ANALYSIS FOR, FOR YOU ALL. 
          UM, YOU HAVE TO THINK FIRST OFF, THAT DEVELOPMENT NUMBER, RIGHT? 20% OF YOUR REVENUE'S COMING FROM DEVELOPMENT. 
          YOU DON'T HAVE TO REPLACE IT RIGHT NOW, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE WATCHING THAT AND BE THINKING ABOUT AS THAT STARTS TO TAPER OFF, WHERE ARE YOU GONNA REPLACE THAT REVENUE FROM? UM, THERE'S A, A COMMUNITY UP IN, IN NORTH TEXAS, UH, FATE TEXAS, THAT WE'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK WITH OVER THE YEARS, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE GETTING CLOSER. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE BUILDING OUT, THEY HAVE A LOT OF IN CITY MUDS. 
          UM, BUT THEY'RE ALREADY STARTING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT, HOW THEY'RE GONNA REPLACE THAT DEVELOPMENT REVENUE BECAUSE THEY HAVE SO MUCH, THEY'VE HAD SO MUCH COMING FROM DEVELOPMENT REVENUE, THEY'VE GOTTA FIND A WAY TO, TO REPLACE IT. 
          UM, THE OPTIONS HERE, RIGHT? YOU CAN, UH, YOU CAN INCREASE SALES TAX. 
          UM, AND AS IT RELATES TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROCESS, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IF WE WANT TO INCREASE SALES TAX, WHAT KIND OF BUSINESSES DO WE WANT? WHERE DO WE WANT TO PUT THOSE BUSINESSES? WHAT'S THE RIGHT SCALE, RIGHT? WE CAN'T PUT ALL KINDS OF COMMERCIAL RIGHT NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL, BUT WE COULD PUT NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE COMMERCIAL CLOSE TO RESIDENTIAL THAT ACTUALLY IMPROVES THE QUALITY OF LIFE. 
          UM, IN SOME NEIGHBORHOODS, THERE'S DIFFERENT SCALES TO DO COMMERCIAL, THERE'S DIFFERENT SCALES TO DO RESIDENTIAL. 
          BUT IF WE SAY THAT WE'RE GONNA CLOSE THAT GAP WITH SALES TAX, OUR TEAM NEEDS TO KNOW WHERE IS THAT GONNA GO AND WHAT'S IT GONNA LOOK LIKE THAT GOES DIRECTLY BACK INTO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP. 
          IF WE SAY, YOU SAY WE WANTED TO CLOSE THAT GAP WITH PROPERTY TAX, THERE'S TWO WAYS TO GET AT IT. 
          YOU CAN RAISE THE TAX RATE, WHICH GETS BACK TO THAT EARLIER SLIDE, RIGHT? DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO DO THAT. 
          OR YOU CAN LOOK AT HOW DO YOU ADJUST THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN TO GET MORE VALUE PER ACRE WITHOUT CHANGING THE TAX RATE, RIGHT? UM, SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT HERE, HOW DO YOU REPLACE THAT DEVELOPMENT REVENUE AND THEN ALSO HOW DO YOU GET ENOUGH REVENUE TO CLOSE THAT STREET FUNDING GAP THAT, THAT WE TALKED ABOUT. 
          SO, WHICH ONE OF THESE IS THE BEST, UM, YOU KNOW, THE BEST FIT FOR KYLE? THAT'S SOMETHING AGAIN, WE'RE GONNA EXPLORE A LITTLE BIT, A LITTLE BIT LATER WITH THE COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          SECOND TAKEAWAY, UM, YOUR POLICY DECISIONS, HOW YOU'RE 
          [00:50:01]
GROWING TODAY IS GOING TO AFFECT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN KYLE. 
          SO YOU NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO BE THINKING ABOUT WHAT DOES AFFORDABILITY MEAN TO KYLE? AND IF YOU WANT DIFFERENT PRICE POINTS, HOW ARE YOU GONNA DO THAT? WHERE ARE YOU GONNA PUT IT? RIGHT? UM, I WILL SAY IF YOU IGNORE AND YOU JUST KIND OF KEEP BUILDING, YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO TYPES, THAT IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO DRIVE THE VALUES UP. 
          THE, ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO KEEP VALUES DOWN AND STABILIZED IS BUILD A DIVERSE MIX OF HOUSING OF DIFFERENT TYPES SO THAT PEOPLE THAT WANT DIFFERENT THINGS AT DIFFERENT PRICE POINTS ACTUALLY HAVE THAT OPTION AND THEY'RE NOT FORCED TO GO INTO THE ONE OR TWO OPTIONS THAT YOU'RE, UH, THAT YOU'RE GIVING THEM DRIVING UP DEMAND, UH, THAT MAYBE OTHERWISE, UH, WOULDN'T BE THERE. 
          UM, SO CONTINUE, CONTINUE AS YOU ARE AND JUST KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF AFFORDABILITY. 
          JUST CONTINUE DOING, CONTINUE BUILDING THE WAY THAT YOU ARE AND KNOWING THAT, YOU KNOW, 400,000 FOR A 1800 SQUARE FOOT HOME IS KIND OF, IS THE LOW END OF WHAT YOU'RE GONNA GET GOING FORWARD. 
          UM, OR LOOK AT WHAT'S THE DIVERSITY OF HOUSING TYPES THAT WE CAN BUILD? WHAT, WHAT CAN WE DO TO CHANGE THOSE PRICE POINTS FOR DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT FOLKS? I ALWAYS LIKE TO EMPHASIZE HERE, AFFORDABILITY DOES NOT HAVE TO MEAN POOR QUALITY, RIGHT? JUST BECAUSE IT'S AFFORDABLE DOES NOT HA DOES NOT MEAN IT HAS TO BE CRAP. 
          YOU CAN DO REALLY, REALLY HIGH QUALITY, REALLY SMALL STUFF. 
          ANOTHER QUESTION I LIKE TO ASK HERE IS, RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU EVER LIVED IN AN APARTMENT. 
          ALMOST EVERYBODY, RIGHT? SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY, WHY DO WE HAVE SUCH KIND OF THE VA THE BAD VIBE IN TODAY'S WORLD ABOUT WHERE ANTI APARTMENTS, RIGHT? IT'S MORE ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THEM. 
          WHERE DO YOU PUT 'EM? HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN THEM? THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT GO WITH IT, BUT APARTMENTS ON THEIR OWN ARE NOT BAD. 
          RENTALS ON THEIR OWN ARE NOT BAD. 
          IT'S CODE ENFORCEMENT IS OTHER THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH RENTAL RENTALS THAT YOU HAVE TO, TO THINK ABOUT. 
          AND AGAIN, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY, THERE'S A LOT MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA NEED RENTALS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD THE PRICE POINT WHERE SINGLE FAMILY IN, IN TEXAS IS, IS HEADED. 
          SO THERE'S A LOT OF WAYS TO GET THERE, BUT WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW FROM YOU GUYS ARE WHAT ARE THE PRIORITIES? WHAT ARE THE, THE VALUES IN KYLE NOW AND IN THE FUTURE THAT YOU WANT US TO KIND OF WORK WITHIN THE LAST TAKEAWAY, UM, GROWTH MANAGEMENT. 
          SO A CITY CAN GUIDE WHERE THE GROWTH GOES, RIGHT? I, I MENTIONED EARLIER, SAY YOU HAVE 10,000 PEOPLE COMING TO KYLE. 
          YOU CAN PUT THEM ALL IN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS. 
          YOU CAN PUT THEM ALL, ALL IN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS WITH IT WITHOUT HAVING TO BUILD ANY MORE EX ANY MORE INFRASTRUCTURE, RIGHT? YOU COULD PUT 'EM ALL IN INFILL, OR YOU COULD TRY, YOU COULD SAY WE'RE GONNA SPLIT IT. 
          WE WANT SOME IN INFILL, BUT WE WANT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF IT IN GREENFIELD, UH, GREENFIELD PARTS OF THE CITY. 
          IF YOU'RE GONNA DO SO. 
          THE THE WAY THAT WE WOULD KIND OF DESCRIBE THIS, THERE'S TWO WAYS TO THINK ABOUT GROWTH MANAGEMENT AND THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN IN GENERAL. 
          ONE IS THE LOCATION. 
          WHERE ARE YOU BUILDING? SO THE MOST FISCALLY PRODUCTIVE APPROACH IS START INSIDE OUT. 
          SO INFILL THE SMALL LOTS. 
          THEN IF YOU'RE GONNA DO, THE NEXT LEVEL OF INFILL WOULD BE INFILL AROUND EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, RIGHT? YOU WANNA MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AS MUCH DEVELOPMENT AROUND ALL OF THE ROADS AND THE SEWER AND THE WATER LINES, EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE BUILT BEFORE YOU GO PUNCH ANOTHER STREET OR ANOTHER WATER SEWER LINE OUT TO GREENFIELD, RIGHT? IF YOU'RE PRIORITIZING FISCAL PRODUCTIVITY, THE OTHER WAY IS THE PATTERN. 
          SO ONE, ONE WAY IS YOU CONTROL THE LOCATION OF WHERE IT IS. 
          UM, THE OTHER WAY IS THE PATTERN. 
          WHAT, WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY BUILDING WHEN WE'RE GONNA BUILD SOMETHING? UM, WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? IS IT THE HIGH VALUE PER ACRE STUFF? IS IT LOWER VALUE PER ACRE? BUT IT'S HELPING US DIVERSIFY THAT HOUSING SPECTRUM. 
          UM, A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO THINK ABOUT WHERE AND HOW YOU BUILD, BUT YOU FRAME IT ALL BACK TO WHAT IS IT GONNA GENERATE IN TAX BASE, WHAT IT'S GONNA COST THE HOMEOWNER, AND THEN WHAT IT'S GONNA COST TO SERVE. 
          SO THIS, ULTIMATELY WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING LAND USE, WE'RE TALKING A LITTLE BIT OF, OF DOLLARS AND CENTS AND NUMBERS FOR THE GROWTH, BUT WHAT WE'RE ULTIMATELY TRYING TO DO IS BUILD A FISCALLY SUSTAINABLE KYLE, BUILD A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO STAY AND BE TODAY THEY WANT TO COME TO, BUT ALSO WHERE MULTIPLE GENERATIONS CAN STAY OVER TIME AND WANT TO COME OVER TIME. 
          UM, AND TO DO THAT, YOU'VE GOTTA KEEP IT, UH, YOU GOTTA KEEP IT AFFORDABLE AND KEEP THOSE SERVICES UP TOO. 
          SO, UM, LAST THING ON HERE THAT I WANTED TO MENTION BEFORE WE GET INTO QUESTIONS, UM, WE DO HAVE, SO THIS IS PRESENTATION. 
          I'M GONNA TAKE QUESTIONS THAT, THAT YOU ALL IN THE AUDIENCE HAVE, UM, ABOUT THIS PRESENTATION. 
          FIRST, IF YOU'RE THINKING YOU WANT TO HAVE INPUT AND PROVIDE INPUT ON WHERE YOU THINK DIFFERENT THINGS COULD GO, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE INPUT ON YOUR SPECIFIC NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT'S WHAT TOMORROW IS FOR. 
          SO WE HAVE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MEETINGS. 
          WE'VE GOT ONE 12 TO THREE O'CLOCK AT FIRE STATION NUMBER TWO, OUR WHOLE TEAM'S GONNA BE THERE ALL AT THE SAME TIME. 
          UM, AND THEN WE'VE ALSO SPLIT THIS OUT INTO FOUR 
          [00:55:01]
SIMULTANEOUS MEETINGS. 
          THEY'RE ALL GONNA BE HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME TOMORROW NIGHT, BUT AT FOUR DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, CONTENT'S GONNA BE EXACTLY THE SAME WHETHER YOU COME TO THE, THE AFTERNOON ONE OR THE EVENING ONE. 
          UM, BUT WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO REACH AS MANY, MANY PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT TIMES. 
          SO THE AFTERNOON ONE, THE EVENING ONE SPREAD OUT, THAT, THAT YOU'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACTUALLY LOOK AT MAPS AND TELL US A LITTLE MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WHAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT YOU THINK CAN GO THERE. 
          YES, SIR. 
          WILL KEVIN, I'M SORRY, THERE'S A TYPO ON THERE. 
          IT'S GONNA BE WEDNESDAY THE 15TH. 
          OH, SORRY, YEAH. 
          TUESDAY THE 13TH ISN'T RIGHT EITHER, IS IT? RIGHT? YEAH. 
          THE THE TIMES ARE CORRECT, THE LOCATION, THE TIME, THE TIMES AND LOCATIONS. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT IT'S ACTUALLY WEDNESDAY. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S NOT TOMORROW. 
          IT'S NOT VALENTINE'S DAY. 
          WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT GONNA ASK YOU TO COME GEEK OUT ON LAND USE WITH US ON VALENTINE'S DAY. 
          I'M SURE SOME OF YOU YOU'RE DO, YOU'RE ALREADY WRITING IT IN. 
          YOU'RE AT DATE NIGHT, NO . 
          UM, SAME. 
          NO, IT'S, IT'S WEDNESDAY NIGHT, SO THANK YOU WILL MM-HMM. 
          . 
          UM, SO YEAH, LET'S, LET'S TAKE SOME QUESTIONS FROM THEM FIRST AND THEN IF WE WANT, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TIME TO ANY QUESTIONS, ANYTHING THAT YOU LEARNED? ANY, ANYTHING THAT WAS CONFUSING? YEAH, I, I ASKED YES, SIR. 
          QUESTION WHEN, WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT SALES TAX AND YOU WERE COMPARING, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CENTER FIELD DOWN HERE COMPARED TO, UH MM-HMM. 
           STARBUCKS NOW. 
          AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER, MY QUESTION, MY QUESTION ALSO ANOTHER DISCUSSION, ANOTHER COMPARISON IS I, I'M THINKING OF THE, THE, UH, CENTRAL AREA, UH, WEST OF 1626, KOHLER'S CROSSING AREA. 
          THERE'S, UH, A MEDICAL, THERE ARE MEDICAL FACILITIES, UH, RESTAURANTS, COFFEE, UH, RESTAURANTS. 
          AND SO THE SALES, I'M ASSUMING THAT THE SALES TAX IS MUCH HIGHER THERE BECAUSE IT'S REALLY NOT PRIVATE PARKING. 
          I MEAN, THERE'S PARKING, BUT IT'S KINDA OPEN PARKING. 
          YOU CAN PARK PRETTY MUCH ANYWHERE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , YOU CAN WALK TO YOUR MEDICAL FACILITY OR GET SOME COFFEE OR THE RESTAURANT VERSUS HERE IN INTERSTATE 35. 
          SO YOU HAVE 35 AND YOU HAVE ALL THESE TAKEOUTS GOING UP AND THEN GOING UP. 
          AND SO THEIR SALES TAX, IF IT'S, IF IT'S COMPARABLE TO STARBUCKS, I'M JUST, I'M JUST QUESTIONING IT, YOU KNOW, IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAYBE CHANGE, UH, 35? OF COURSE IT'S PROBABLY TOO LATE NOW, BUT IF HAD, IF IT HAD BEEN ALTERED TO A SIMILAR PLANT AS THAT ONE OVER THERE, WOULD WE BE GETTING MORE SALES TAX OUT OF THE INTERSTATE? OR ARE WE NOT GETTING AS MUCH? YOU KNOW WHAT I'M, I'M JUST COMPARING. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, SO FIRST, SO THIS STUFF ALL FOCUSES ON PROPERTY TAX, RIGHT? SO, AND PART OF PART OF WHY I LIKE TO COME BACK, WE'VE AL WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN ASKED ABOUT SALES TAX IN THIS PRESENTATION AND SALES TAX IS PART OF THE EQUATION. 
          BUT WHAT, WHAT I SAW IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY AND WHAT YOU START TO SEE IN TEXAS IS WHEN YOUR DEVELOPMENT PATTERN IS NOT PRODUCTIVE ENOUGH FOR PROPERTY TAX, YOU NEED TO SUBSIDIZE IT WITH SALES TAX AND OTHER THINGS TO COVER THOSE GAPS, WHICH IS OKAY TO A POINT, BUT WHEN YOU START TO SEE SALES TAX USED TO COVER MORE AND MORE OF THE BASIC SERVICES, UM, IT CAN BE, IT CAN BE FRAGILE TO AN EXTENT. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME SALES TAX. 
          AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER IS KYLE HAS ADDED A TON OF SALES TAX IN THE LAST 10, 20 YEARS. 
          RIGHT? UM, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT SALES TAX CAN BE, IT COULD BE LIKE MORE AUTO LIKE AUTO ORIENTED REGIONAL COMMERCIAL THAT'S LIKE A, A BIG BOX OR SOME OF THE POWER CENTERS THAT WE SEE THAT ATTRACT PEOPLE FROM A, A LARGER AREA THAT COME IN AND THEY NEED THE BIGGER PARKING. 
          AND YOU HAVE AREAS LIKE THAT THAT THEY'RE NOT AS EFFICIENT PROPERTY TAX PER ACRE, BUT THEY ARE, THEY ARE HIGHER, HIGHER SALES TAX PRODUCERS. 
          RIGHT? BUT THE TRADITIONAL PATTERN, LIKE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, IF IT'S DONE WELL, IT'S A HOME RUN FOR PROPERTY TAX PER ACRE. 
          IT CAN ALSO BE A, A HOME RUN FOR SALES TAX. 
          AND SO A LOT OF THE, THE NEWER LIKE MIXED USE STYLE DEVELOPMENTS LIKE PALM CREEK AND THE ONE YOU WERE, A LOT OF THAT NEW, THAT'S MORE OF THE TRADITIONAL KIND OF MIXED USE STYLE WHERE YOU COME, YOU HAVE A PARKING GARAGE, YOU GET OUT AND IT'S ALL NARROWER STREETS AND MORE PEDESTRIAN FOCUSED. 
          RIGHT? BUT THAT ALL, THAT MODEL ONLY WORKS IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH RESIDENTIAL WITH IT. 
          RIGHT? SO, AND THAT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT TOO FROM THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, IS THINGS THAT ARE TRENDING IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IF IT'S GONE FROM INDUSTRY BASED AND TRAFFIC VOLUME BASED TO PLACE-BASED ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF COMPANIES WANTING TO BE IN GREAT 
          [01:00:01]
PLACES. 
          CUZ THAT'S WHERE THE PEOPLE WANT TO BE AND THE TALENT WANTS TO BE. 
          NOW IT'S ALMOST GETTING TO THE POINT THAT IT'S PEOPLE FOCUSED, THAT IT'S INDIVIDUALS THAT SAY, I DON'T WANT TO COMMUTE, I CAN WORK FROM HOME. 
          AND SO THEY'RE PICKING WHERE THEY LIVE BASED ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THEY, CUZ THEY CAN STILL GO KIND OF HAVE MORE EMPLOYMENT CHOICES. 
          SO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND EMPLOYMENT IS, IS CHANGING. 
          UM, BUT THE CONTEXT OF MORE PEOPLE AND MORE AGES, UM, WANTING MORE OF THE, THE WALKABLE MIXED USE ENVIRONMENT, WE NEED TO PROVIDE MORE OF THAT IN TEXAS, WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL. 
          UM, UH, BUT YEAH, THOSE SCALES AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA GET INTO. 
          THERE'S SCALES BETWEEN AUTO FOCUSED AND PEDESTRIAN FOCUSED AND THEN HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL VERSUS INSIDE YOUR, YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          SO, UM, AND YOU NEED BOTH. 
          BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN AND WHY WE FOCUS BACK ON PROPERTY TAXES, YOU SHOULD HAVE A SUFFICIENT PROPERTY TAX BASE SO THAT YOUR SALES TAX CAN GO TOWARDS GROWTH AND QUALITY OF LIFE, WHICH, WHAT, WHICH IS WHAT SALES TAX WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO DO. 
          IT SHOULD BE GOING TOWARDS INVESTMENTS IN GROWTH AND QUALITY OF LIFE, NOT TO PAY FOR THE BASIC GENERAL SERVICES. 
          RIGHT. 
          I HAVE A FEW COMMENTS OF COURSE. 
          SURE. 
          UM, MY FIRST COMMENT IS, IS UM, I CAME FROM A CITY, A BIG CITY AT THAT I PURPOSELY MOVED TO CITY OF KYLE TO BE AWAY FROM THE CITY. 
          I CAME FROM LAS VEGAS. 
          UM, I WORKED CONSTRUCTION, SO I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH STREETS. 
          UM, I'M ACTUALLY FAMILIAR WITH DEVELOPMENT IN TAKING CARE OF SOME OF THE STREETS WHEN THEY BUILD THEIR HOMES. 
          I CAME TO THE CITY OF COUNCIL A FEW YEARS BACK MAKING A COMMENT ABOUT A SUBDIVISION GOING IN AND I BROUGHT UP A COUPLE COMMENTS. 
          ONE OF THEM IS, WHEN YOU BUILD A BUNCH OF HOMES IN ONE AREA, WHERE'S THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE YOU'RE PUTTING MORE PEOPLE IN THAT AREA. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , IT'S CROWDED, YOU'RE GOING TO GET MORE TROUBLE AND MEANS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE MORE POLICE AND FIRE APARTMENTS. 
          THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH APARTMENTS, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE FOUR FLOORS OF APARTMENTS, YOU GOT MORE PEOPLE CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS. PERMITS DON'T PAY TAXES. 
          THEY DO, THEY PAY PROPERTY TAXES? NOT MUCH. 
          NOT WHEN WE'RE GETTING FROM HOMES. 
          COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE, WELL, I LIKE TO SEE THE NUMBERS. 
          I DIDN'T SEE NO NUMBERS. 
          YEAH, YEAH. 
          I DON'T SEE STACKS. 
          YEAH. 
          I'M A STACK PERSON. 
          SURE. 
          UM, COUPLE YEARS AGO, I WILL SAY MUL MULTI-FAMILY AND KYLE IS RIGHT UP THERE WITH THE SMALL LOT SINGLE FAMILY IN TERMS OF VALUE BREAKER. 
          IT'S JUST THE OWNER OF THE APARTMENTS IS THE COMPLEX IS PAYING IT, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL TENANT. 
          AND THE TENANTS ARE PAYING FOR IT WITH RENT. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          COUPLE YEARS AGO YOU MENTIONED THAT THE CITY OF KYLE'S GET $765 FOR EVERY HOME THAT THEY SELL. 
          WELL, A FEW YEARS BACK, AND I WANT TO SAY ABOUT THREE YEARS BACK, WE WERE TOLD IT WAS ABOUT A THOUSAND DOLLARS PER HOME. 
          NO. 
          THAT YOU'RE GET, THEY'RE GETTING SEVEN. 
          KYLE'S GETTING 7, 7 65. 
          IT'S 7 65 PER ACRE. 
          NOT PER HOUSE. 
          PER ACRE. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S, SO THAT'S JUST THE TOTAL, THE TOTAL PROPERTY TAX REVENUE THAT THE CITY BRINGS IN DIVIDED BY THE TOTAL AREA OF THE CITY. 
          SO IN THIS SUBDIVISION, I'M NOT QUITE, I'M NOT GONNA BRING IT UP, BUT, UM, I WAS, WE WERE TOLD THAT THEY WERE GOING TO GET FROM ALL THOSE HOMES THAT THEY WERE GONNA BUILD IN THAT AREA, THEY'RE GONNA GET A THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR IT. 
          THOSE ACRES WERE SMALLER THAN AN ACRE. 
          SO I STILL, AGAIN, THE NUMBERS DON'T BALANCE. 
          UM, I HAVE A, SO, AND THEN I QUESTION, YOU'RE GONNA PUT SMALLER STREETS. 
          I AGREE. 
          SMALLER STREETS DO SLOW PEOPLE DOWN. 
          MM-HMM. 
           MM-HMM. 
           MORE LAX CRAP CROWD CAUSE PROBLEMS. I MEAN, I'VE PURPOSELY MOVED HERE FOR THE RURAL AREA. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , IWAN CITY, I MEAN, TO GO BACK TO LAS VEGAS AND LIVE IN THAT CITY. 
          AND THEN I WATCH LAS VEGAS GO TO A BOOM WHERE THEY BUILD TONS OF HOMES IN THE SMALL AREA. 
          IT'S A GHOST TOWN. 
          I STILL GO BACK TO VEGAS. 
          I HAVE GO THERE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , IT'S A GHOST TOWN. 
          WE JUST DID WORK OUT THERE. 
          THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN HERE. 
          THE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO STOP BECAUSE THE PRICES YOU GOT INTEREST IS GOING UP. 
          THE PRICES OF HOMES GOING UP. 
          PEOPLE ARE NOT GONNA WANNA PAY. 
          PEOPLE ARE NOT GONNA WANNA MOVE FROM AUSTIN TO HERE TO PAY THE SAME TAXES ON PROPERTY AS THEY DO IN AUSTIN. 
          WE'RE PAYING OUTRAGEOUS TAXES FOR OUR PROPERTY. 
          IT'S CRAZY. 
          THERE'S NO TAX DEDUCTION FOR OUR PROPERTY. 
          IF YOU LIVE IN AUSTIN, YOU'RE A CERTAIN AGE, YOU GET A TAX BREAK, NOT HERE. 
          SO, SO LET ME, SO LET ME JUST KIND OF FRAME IT CAUSE I HEAR YOU. 
          I HEAR YOU. 
          SO A COUPLE 
          [01:05:01]
COUPLE THINGS AND, AND I WANT TO JUST, I WANT TO, WE NEED TO GET FACTS AND NOT JUST BELIEFS, RIGHT? MORE PEOPLE IN AN AREA DOES NOT NECESSARILY GENERATE MORE CRIME. 
          I KNOW THERE'S, I KNOW, I KNOW THERE'S A BELIEF THAT IT DOES. 
          IT DOESN'T OFTEN I IN THE CITY, SO I HAVE, I SEE THIS, BUT, BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT URBAN CITY. 
          WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE, AGAIN, LIKE EYES ON THE STREET FRONT PORCHES, PEOPLE KNOW EACH OTHER. 
          IT'S, THERE HAS TO BE, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE DESIGN OF IT. 
          AND THIS GETS MORE INTO CODES AND THINGS TO COME AFTER THE COMP PLAN. 
          UM, IF WE DO HAVE, AND WE HAVE A HUGE CHALLENGE IN TEXAS WITH EVERYBODY DRIVES RIGHT NOW AND IT'S HOT MOST OF THE TIME, RIGHT? UM, AND HOW CAN YOU GO, HOW CAN YOU GO ALL THE WAY TO A MORE COMPACT, WALKABLE ENVIRONMENT WHEN EVERYBODY STILL HAS TWO CARS OR THREE CARS OR WHATEVER. 
          SO IT'S, IT'S KIND OF, IF YOU BUILD A MORE WALKABLE, COMPACT NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU CAN EVENTUALLY TAKE CARS OFF OF THE ROAD. 
          BUT IF ALL YOU DO IS BUILD THE APARTMENT COMPLEX OR BUILD, YOU KNOW, BUILD THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S, THAT'S LOW DENSITY, THAT'S GONNA HAVE, YOU KNOW, THREE CARS PER HOUSE OR WHATEVER, YOU ARE GONNA GENERATE SOME, SOME MORE TRAFFIC. 
          SO AGAIN, I, I'M GONNA BRING THIS BACK AND THIS IS WHAT YOU'LL SEE US DO AND WHAT I THINK STAFF AND COUNSEL SHOULD START TO DO IS BRING IT BACK TO THE NUMBERS, RIGHT? IF YOU WANT, IF KYLE CHOOSES AND SAYS WE WANT SPREAD OUT DEVELOPMENT, WE DON'T WANT THE DENSITY, WE DON'T WANT ALL OF THE PEOPLE PACKED IN HERE THEN AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE OF A DRIVING ENVIRONMENT THAT REQUIRES WIDER ROADS AND MORE PARKING. 
          THE DISCONNECT RIGHT NOW IS IN THAT REGARD, YOU'RE GETTING A CADILLAC AND YOU'RE PAYING FOR A YUGO, RIGHT? AND IT'S NOT JUST KYLE, IT'S EVERYWHERE. 
          WE HAVE BEEN GETTING A CERTAIN KIND OF DEVELOPMENT THAT HAS A BIGGER COST TO IT THAT WE HAVE NOT BEEN HONEST ABOUT WHAT IT REALLY COSTS TO MAINTAIN. 
          RIGHT? SO IF YOU WANT THOSE THINGS, THAT'S GREAT, BUT THERE'S A HIGHER PRICE TO PAY FOR IT THAT IS COMING IN BACK TO THAT CHOICE. 
          IT MEANS HIGHER TAXES OR STREET FEES. 
          YOU CAN'T, MOST CITIES CANNOT SUSTAIN THAT PATTERN WITHOUT GETTING MORE REVENUE FROM SOMEWHERE. 
          THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT THOUGHTS ABOUT WHERE THEY WANT TO LIVE, HOW THEY WANT TO LIVE, RIGHT? SO JUST LIKE YOU HAVE CERTAIN BELIEFS ABOUT WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE, THERE'S OTHER FOLKS THAT WOULD LIKE THE WALKABLE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT PROBABLY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MORE PEOPLE AROUND. 
          AND SO YOU HAVE TO JUST HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT CONTEXT FOR THAT FOR KYLE ALSO AND WHERE DOES THAT GO IF, IF YOU BUILD, IT'S, IT'S LIKE I SAID, YOU CAN'T BUILD ALL, IT'S, IT'S NOT A, YOU KNOW, ALL OR NOTHING KIND OF THING. 
          UM, BUT THE LAST, THE LAST POINT BACK TO YOUR PROPERTY TAX THING, IT'S 7 65 PER ACRE ACROSS THE WHOLE CITY. 
          THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S COMING IN IS MUCH HIGHER THAN THAT, RIGHT? THE, THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S COMING IN IS MORE 3000, 4,000. 
          THOSE TOP THREE WE'RE LIKE, I DON'T EVEN, I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANNA LIE. 
          I'M GONNA TELL YOU, UH, THAT NUMBER ONE IS 79,000 PER ACRE, RIGHT? THIS SINGLE FAMILY HOME, RIGHT? THERE IS REVENUE PER ACRE, 36,000 PER ACRE AFTER YOU LOAD STREETS IN IT'S 32,000 PER ACRE. 
          SO THAT IS PAYING ITS WAY ALL DAY LONG. 
          IS THAT PROPERTY TAX? YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT THEY'RE PAYING YEAH, THAT'S PROPERTY TAX. 
          YEAH. 
          I'M SORRY, THAT'S THE PROP. 
          SO ITS ASSESSED VALUE IS 405,000, UM, BUT THE ACTUAL PROPERTY TAX REVENUE PER ACRE THAT THE CITY IS GETTING IS 36,000 AN ACRE. 
          I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          BECAUSE IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REVENUE, UM, AND IT'S ACREAGE CAUSE I DON'T WANNA GET HOUSES MIXED UP WITH ACREAGE AND IT STUFF AT SQUARE FEET. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S IN MY GAME AND I'M NOT GONNA DO THAT. 
          . 
          OKAY. 
          SO MY HOUSE, SINCE I'M LESS THAN AN ACRE AND IT'S IN A CUL-DE-SAC AND IT'S IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, MY LAND VALUE IS 62 $4,800. 
          AND I DO NOT LIVE IN THE NICER PART OF CAYO LIVE ON, YOU KNOW, ON THE EAST SIDE AND THE OLDER SUBDIVISION. 
          SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, HOW DID YOU GUYS COME TO THAT NUMBER? THIS IS STRAIGHT, NO, NO, NO. 
          765. 
          I KNOW THAT'S AN AVERAGE, BUT I'M THINKING, GEEZ, THAT HAS TO BE, WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS JUST THE AMOUNT OF UNDEVELOPED LAND THAT YOU HAVE IN THE, IN THE CITY. 
          YOU, SO YOU'VE ADDED A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT YOU ALSO, AND WE HAVE A SLIDE THAT WE SHOW SOMETIMES THAT SHOWS THE POPULATION GROWTH BUT ALSO THE EXPANSION OF THE CITY. 
          SO KYLE'S FOOTPRINT, WELL YOU'VE ADDED A LOT OF PEOPLE, YOU'VE ADDED A LOT OF LAND TOO, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE A LOT OF LAND RIGHT NOW THAT'S EXEMPT OR GENERATING DARN NEAR NOTHING AND PROJECT CUZ IT'S UNDEVELOPED. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO THAT'S BRINGING THAT NUMBER DOWN. 
          SO YOU, SO DON'T, I, I WANNA MAKE SURE I HAMMER THIS HOME. 
          IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU'VE BUILT ON THE GROUND, YOU'RE DOING A LOT BETTER THAN A LOT OF OTHER PLACES LIKE THE KYLE. 
          SO WHAT WOULD YOUR SUGGESTION BE FOR THE, THE IDEA OR THE FACT THAT KYLE HAS A LOT OF UNDEVELOPABLE LAND DUE TO FLOOD. 
          THANKS FLOOD PLAINS, THAT'S A, SO YOU 
          [01:10:01]
CAN'T BUILD IN THE FLOOD PLAIN. 
          UM, PLEASE. 
          IT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE EVEN HARDER WITH THE NEW, WITH THE NEW REGULATIONS. 
          DID YOU TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU DO THIS REPORT? YES. 
          SO WE LOOKED AT IT BOTH, BOTH WAYS. 
          WE LOOK AT THE TOTAL AREA AND THEN WE ALSO LOOK AT JUST THE TAXABLE LAND WHEN WE RUN THAT NUMBER BOTH WAYS. 
          AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHICH NUMBER THAT 7 65 IS, IF IT'S THE TOTAL, I'M, I THINK IT'S THE TOTAL CITY THAT INCLUDES UNDEVELOPABLE LAND WITH IT. 
          BUT ALL THAT SAID IS YOU HAVE, YOU STILL HAVE THOSE AREA, THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN THE CITY. 
          YOU COULD, SOMETIMES THERE'S NO MAINTENANCE OR NOTHING ASSOCIATED WITH A, WITH A FLOOD PLAIN. 
          BUT, AND THAT'S A LEVEL, SOMETIMES WHEN WE DO A STANDALONE FISCAL ANALYSIS, WE'LL GET MUCH DEEPER INTO SOME OF THOSE THINGS. 
          THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO WITH AND STILL DO ALL THE COMP PLAN STUFF WITH IT. 
          WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET KIND OF THE, THE PRINCIPLES HERE THAT GETS YOU KIND OF PART OF THE WAY THERE. 
          BUT WE DID LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, THE, AGAIN, THE OVERALL AREA THAT INCLUDES ANY EXEMP LAND, ANY UNDEVELOPED, YOU KNOW, FLOODPLAIN, WHATEVER. 
          UM, AND THEN WE ALSO LOOKED AT WHAT'S THAT NUMBER JUST FOR THE TAXABLE LAND. 
          AND SO I CAN LOOK THAT UP AND GET THAT, I'LL GET THAT TO WILL AND HE CAN SHARE IT WITH YOU. 
          SO YOU HAVE THAT NUMBER TOO, CUZ IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW, RIGHT? YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE FOR. 
          THIS IS, THIS IS AN AREA THAT'S DEVELOPED AND SERVED, RIGHT? SO IT'S DEVELOPED AND IT'S ALSO GETTING CITY SERVICES. 
          WHAT REVENUE ARE YOU GETTING FOR THAT? THIS IS AN AREA THAT'S SERVED, SO IT HAS SERVICES INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT IT'S NOT DEVELOPED YET. 
          WHAT ARE YOU GETTING FOR THAT? AND THEN THERE'S UNSERVED UNDEVELOPED THAT IT'S JUST SITTING THERE, RIGHT? BUT YOU HAVEN'T PUNCHED INFRASTRUCTURE TO IT YET. 
          SO THE SERVICES SERVICE COST IS A LOT LOWER, RIGHT? SO AS PART OF GOING THROUGH THIS, WE DID LOOK AND SAY WHAT, HOW CAN WE ALLOCATE SERVICES IN A WAY THAT DEVELOPED LAND IS CARRYING MORE OF THE SERVICE COST WEIGHT THAN UNDEVELOPED LAND. 
          RIGHT? UM, AND THE MORE DEVELOPED IT IS, THE MORE SERVED IT IS, IT'S GOT MORE COST TO IT. 
          SO THE DEVELOPED, THE DEVELOPED PROPERTIES ARE CARRYING MORE OF THE COST THAN THE UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES. 
          IF THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          YEAH, YEAH. 
          I GUESS MY CONCERN WOULD BE LIKE DEVELOPED LAND VERSUS UNDEVELOPED LAND VERSUS UNDEVELOPABLE LAND. 
          UNDEVELOPABLE. 
          YEAH. 
          WE CAN'T REALLY ASSUME THAT EVERY INCH OF COLLEGE IS GONNA BE ABLE TO BE DEVELOPED. 
          SO TO MAKE A LIKE, UH, A FAIR ASSESSMENT, WE WOULD'VE TO SAY IF THIS PART DOESN'T MATTER CUZ IT'S, IT'S NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO BE DEVELOPED. 
          MM-HMM. 
           MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND SO REALLY WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT THIS OVERALL, WE'RE LOOKING AT JUST THESE TWO SECTIONS, WHICH IS DEVELOPABLE VERSUS DEVELOP. 
          THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION AND IT'S SOME, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW IS WHAT, AND WE HAVE, KARINA IS GOING THROUGH THIS WITH THE PROCESSES. 
          WHAT'S YOUR DEVELOPABLE LAND? WHAT'S YOUR UNDEVELOPABLE LAND? AND THEN WHAT ARE THESE NU YOU KNOW, THESE TARGETS THAT WE TALK ABOUT HERE AT THE END THAT AGAIN, I HESITATED WHETHER OR NOT I EVEN WANT TO SHOW TARGETS YET BECAUSE WE'RE KIND OF EARLY IN THE PROCESS. 
          UM, BUT NIGHT, WHERE IS IT? ? I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT WENT. 
          OH, THERE IT IS. 
          SO THIS KIND OF STUFF, THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS PROCESS IS TO DIAL THIS IN A LITTLE BIT. 
          SO WE DID AN INITIAL ASSESSMENT, WE'RE TALKING WITH STAFF, WE'VE GOTTEN SOME FEEDBACK, BUT YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THESE NUMBERS ARE. 
          THEY'RE GREAT QUESTIONS OF THE, OF WHAT, WHAT IS THE TOTAL LAND, WHAT'S THE FOOTPRINT OF LAND WE CAN ACTUALLY BUILD ON? UM, YOU KNOW, AND WHAT IS THE REVENUE HAVE TO BE OF THAT LAND TO COVER, TO COVER EVERYTHING. 
          SO, AND WHAT WAS THE EXPENSES BE? I MEAN, RIGHT? I MEAN YOU'RE, YOU'RE SHUT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST REVENUE, BUT WHAT ARE THE EXPENSES THAT GO IN GETTING THOSE REVENUES, RIGHT? YOU BUILD ALL THESE HOMES, YOU STILL HAVE EXPENSES. 
          HOW IS THAT GONNA, YOU KNOW, GOTTA PAY FOR THAT, RIGHT? I MEAN IT, I MEAN IT IS GREAT PRESENTATION. 
          IT'S ALREADY, BUT I, NO, NO, THERE'S COST IN, SO WE USED TO DO JUST THE REVENUE SIDE. 
          WE USED TO JUST SHOW THE REVENUE SIDE AND IT WOULD SHOW DOWNTOWN AND TALL BUILDINGS, OOH, THIS DOES GREAT, BUT THERE'S A SERVICE COST TO IT. 
          BUT WHAT I CAN SAY, WHEN YOU REALLY DRILL INTO THE SERVICE COST, THAT THERE IS THE, THERE'S A PERCEPTION OUT THERE THAT DENSITY COSTS MORE THAN SPREAD OUT. 
          AND THAT'S NOT ALWAYS TRUE. 
          SOMETIMES MORE SPREAD OUT CAN COST MORE BECAUSE IT'S SO SPREAD OUT AND THE COST OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO GET EVERYTHING OUT THERE, RIGHT? THE WATER TOWERS, THE PUMP STATIONS, THE WIDER STREETS, THE ADDITIONAL FIRE STATIONS, EVERYTHING THAT COMES COMES WITH THAT. 
          SO THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY SERVICE COSTS, WHICH IS, THAT'S REALLY THE GIST BEHIND THIS WHOLE THING IS THERE'S MORE SERVICE COSTS WHEN YOU FACTOR IN EVERYTHING TO THE CITY NOW AND IN THE FUTURE, YOU HAVE MORE COSTS THAT YOU HAVE TO COVER THAT RIGHT NOW YOU DON'T HAVE THE REVENUE TO PAY FOR. 
          NOW IF YOU KEEP CRANKING IN THE, THE INFILL DEVELOPMENT WITH WHAT YOU'VE BEEN BUILDING, YOUR, YOUR REVENUES ARE GONNA GO UP. 
          YOU'RE NOT GONNA ADD A LOT IN TERMS OF INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS. 
          YOU WILL ADD SOME SERVICE COSTS, SO POLICE AND FIRE AND ADDITIONAL STAFF FOR THOSE PEOPLE. 
          BUT YOU'RE PROBABLY GONNA ADD THOSE SAME COSTS IF YOU PUT THOSE PEOPLE OUT IN THE EDGE TOO. 
          SO THE REAL DRIVER ON HOW FAST YOU CLOSE THE GAP OR HOW FAST YOU MAKE IT BIGGER IS INFRASTRUCTURE. 
          IT'S INFRASTRUCTURE, INFRASTRUCTURE. 
          INF ARE YOU BUILDING MORE OR ARE YOU PUTTING DEVELOPMENT AROUND WHAT YOU HAVE? IF, 
          [01:15:01]
IF I CAN JUST, UH, INTERVIEW REAL QUICK AND I GUESS THAT'S WHAT WE AS COUNCIL THEN P AND C WE CAN LOOK AT AGAIN. 
          WE CAN FINALLY GIVE IT MAYBE AS WILL WITH YOU TO GET THE PLAN GOING TO SAY LIKE WHAT'S RIGHT NOW AS OF TODAY, WHAT'S OUR TOTAL PERCENTAGE OF BUILDUP? OKAY. 
          AND THEN THAT INCLUDES NEW INFRASTRUCTURE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 
          THAT'S ON THE TABLE ALSO. 
          OH, I'M SORRY, . 
          SORRY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO WHAT I'M ASKING THEM IS THAT WHAT WE CAN DO GOING FORWARD IS TO KIND OF SEE THE PERCENTAGES OF THE BUILDOUT THAT WE HAVE IN THE CITY. 
          OKAY? WHERE, WHERE ARE WE AT RIGHT NOW FOR THE YEAR AS FAR AS WHAT GROWTH THAT WE'RE SEEING? WHERE'S OUR PERCENTAGE THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT? OKAY, THE PERCENTAGE OF BUILDOUT THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. 
          NUMBER TWO, WHAT NEW PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE COMING FORWARD, WE CAN START LOOKING AT THAT. 
          THAT INCLUDES ANY NEW INFRASTRUCTURE THAT INCLUDES STREETS AND SO FORTH, THE DIMENSIONS AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT. 
          AND ALSO WHAT WE HIT THE MAIN POINTS WAS LOCATION. 
          YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY EAST SIDE, WEST SIDE, I THINK THE WHOLE CITY EVERYWHERE IS BEAUTIFUL. 
          OKAY. 
          WE HAVE, WE HAVE GREAT NEIGHBORHOODS EVERYWHERE. 
          WHAT, WHAT SIDE YOU LOOKING ON? SO WE GOTTA LOOK AT THE LOCATION AND ALSO TO SEE IF IT IS DEVELOPED. 
          CUZ AGAIN, THIS IS ALL FARMLAND THAT WE GREW UP ON. 
          THAT'S ALL DEVELOPED OUT THERE. 
          IT'S GONNA FLOOD NO MATTER WHAT. 
          BUT IT'S A MATTER OF WHENEVER WE HAVE THESE DEVELOPMENTS THAT COME IN, HOW CAN WE GET WITH ENGINEERS TO MAKE SURE THAT HOW WE CAN ALLEVIATE SOME OF THAT FLOODING AND MAKE IT SAFE AND ALSO LOOK AT THE LOT SIZE AND SO FORTH. 
          BECAUSE AGAIN, WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU IS EVERYTHING. 
          ANYBODY ELSE? SAME THING WITH ME. 
          AFFORDABILITY, HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA COST. 
          CORRECT. 
          IT'S ALL ABOUT THE DOLLARS IN THE END. 
          AFFORDABILITY IN THIS CITY IS GETTING MORE EXPENSIVE AND SO FORTH, RIGHT? $8 A GALLON, $8 FOR A DOZEN GA EGGS, THREE 50 FOR GAS. 
          I THINK WE ARE ALL ON THAT SAME LEVEL, BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING FORWARD WHEN IT COMES TO THIS. 
          WE HAVE TO SEE WHERE WE'RE AT GOING FORWARD. 
          YES, WE'RE STILL EARLY IN THE GAME AS FAR AS OUR POPULATION GROWTH, BUT THIS IS WHERE WE AS A COUNCIL AND P AND Z CAN BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS AND KIND OF START TO SEE WHATEVER'S COMING OUR WAY WE CAN BE ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT AND SO FORTH AND HOW IT CAN BENEFIT THE TAXPAYER, WHICH IS ALWAYS, YEAH, THAT'S, SO I WANT TO, I WANT TO REDIRECT US CUZ WE DO HAVE KINDA HAVE TO SEPARATE COMMUNITY MEANING FROM, FROM SOME OF THE COUNCIL DISCUSSION. 
          SURE. 
          I WANNA MAKE SURE WE GET INPUT FROM, FROM YOU ALL. 
          THAT'S WHAT THE FIRST, THE FIRST PART IS FOR. 
          BUT I WILL SAY WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS EXACTLY WHERE THIS PROCESS GOES. 
          IT'S, IT'S DATA INFORMED, IT'S MATH INFORMED OF WHAT ARE THESE DIFFERENT GROSS SCENARIOS AND I'LL, I'LL JUST, I'LL POINT YOU TO, UM, THE TAYLOR, UH, COMP PLAN THAT WE JUST, WE WERE ON THE TEAM THAT JUST FINISHED THAT ONE AND WHERE THAT ONE WENT IS THEY ENDED UP WITH TWO GROSS SCENARIOS. 
          ONE WAS CONTINUE BUSINESS AS USUAL, GROW OUT AROUND THE EDGE. 
          THE OTHER ONE WAS A MORE FISCALLY SUSTAINABLE FISCAL, YOU KNOW, FISCAL FIRST I THINK IS WHAT THEY WERE CALLING IT, BUT IT WAS INFILL OUT. 
          AND WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE MATH AND WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH THE COMMUNITY, WHEN THEY GOT DOWN TO VOTING FOR THOSE TWO SCENARIOS, OVER 80% OF THE PEOPLE THAT RESPONDED TO THE SURVEY PICKED THE INFILL ONE BECAUSE THEY SAW IT COULD PRESERVE SOME OF THE TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOODS, COULD GIVE THEM THE MIX OF HOUSING AND IT MADE THEM, YOU KNOW, HELP THEM CLOSE THE, THE GAP. 
          SO THAT'S THE SAME PROCESS THAT WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH HERE. 
          IT'S GONNA BE YOUR CHOICES, IT'S KYLE'S CHOICES ON WHICH WAY YOU GO. 
          BUT WE'RE GONNA PUT MATH TO IT AND JUST GIVE YOU THE, THE DATA POINT. 
          SO I KNOW YOU HAVE QUESTIONS AND WE'LL WE'LL GET TO YOU, BUT DO YOU, DO YOU ALL HAVE ANY MORE, ANY IN ANY FROM THE COMMUNITY? MY ONLY QUESTION IS WILL THIS POWERPOINT BE AVAILABLE ON THE CITY WEBSITE OR HOW? I BELIEVE SO. 
          YES. 
          GIVE IT TO US. 
          SOMEONE SEND IT TO ME. 
          I CAN ADD IT TO THE CITY WEBSITE. 
          I WAS GONNA ASK. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YEAH, THAT WAS EASY. 
          I LIKE EASY ONES. 
          MY OTHER QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU'RE DOING THIS RESEARCH IN SPACE, ARE YOU, IS THERE ANY OTHER CITY THAT IS COMPARABLE TO OUR, OUR CITY WHERE THEY MAY HAVE, WHERE YOU CAN SAY, COLUMBUS, THIS CITY WITH SUCH AND SUCH A BROKEN HERE IN INFRASTRUCTURE HERE, HERE AND THERE. 
          AND IF, IF IT IS, IF, IF IT MIGHT WORK FOR THE CITY OF COBB IS THERE, IF THERE SUCH? I THINK, I MEAN THIS PROCESS OF WHAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH IS PRETTY NEW. 
          UM, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF FOLKS THAT THAT DO IT. 
          I THINK THAT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING OUR FIRM IS VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT DOING. 
          AND PART OF I THINK WHY, WHY WE GOT SELECTED TO, TO DO THIS ONE. 
          OUR, OUR APPROACH IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. 
          CUZ SOMETIMES FRANKLY THE NUMBERS SCARE PEOPLE. 
          UM, AND SOMETIMES WHEN IT GETS DOWN TO MAKING THOSE CHOICES ABOUT WHAT YOU REALLY WANT, THEY'RE HARD CHOICES, RIGHT? UM, BUT WE, WE HAVE STUDIED A LOT OF PLACES. 
          WE HAVE CONTEXT DATA 
          [01:20:01]
FROM DIFFERENT PLACES ON ON HOW DIFFERENT PATTERNS PERFORM. 
          BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO LOCALIZE IT TO THIS COMMUNITY, YOUR CON YOUR MARKET, YOUR TAX RATE, YOU KNOW YOUR NEEDS AND THAT'S THE SERVICE CO THE VALUE SIDE. 
          WE CAN LOOK AT THE WHOLE COUNTY AND WE CAN MAP VALUE BREAKER PRETTY EASY, RIGHT? AND SHOW YOU WHAT'S GOT THE HIGHEST VALUE BREAKER IN THE WHOLE COUNTY. 
          BUT THE COST SIDE OF IT IS LOCAL. 
          THAT'S A CITY DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE, WHAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, UM, AND WHAT THOSE COSTS ARE. 
          SO THERE'S LESSONS LEARNED HERE, AND I SHOWED YOU THAT ONE SLIDE THAT SHOWS HERE'S THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE HIGHEST ION PARCELS THAT'S ACROSS ALL OF OUR STUDIES. 
          AND THAT ONE CHART THAT SHOWS THE SINGLE FAMILY GOING DOWN FROM LEFT, THAT'S HELD TRUE EVERYWHERE. 
          THE, THE VALUES CHANGE A LITTLE BIT AND THE, THE SLOPE OF THAT LINE OF THE REVENUE PER ACRE LINE WILL CHANGE A LITTLE BIT, BUT THE TREND IS USUALLY THE SMALLER LOTS HAVE THE HIGHEST REVENUE PER ACRE. 
          UM, SO THERE'S TAKEAWAYS THAT WE CAN GET THERE AND THERE'S CONTEXT THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY PULL INTO CONVERSATIONS, BUT THE SOLUTION IS REALLY, IT'S A COMMUNITY CONVERSATION. 
          UM, AND IT'S WHAT FITS HERE, RIGHT? AND PART OF MY JOB IN THIS FIRST PRESENTATION IS JUST TO HOLD UP THE MI THE MIRROR AND BE A LITTLE, I, I DON'T WANNA BE DOOM AND GLOOM, BUT I ALSO WANNA BE REALISTIC OF, OF THE ENGINEERING PROFESSION. 
          MY, MY FELLOW PES, WE HAVE NOT DONE A GOOD JOB OF REALLY QUANTIFYING WHAT THE REAL COSTS OF DEVELOPMENT ARE ON THE BACK END. 
          DEVELOPERS WILL COME IN AND THEY'LL TELL YOU ALL DAY LONG IS WHAT WE'RE BRINGING TO THE CITY. 
          HERE'S THE TAX BASE, THE ROOFTOPS, ALL THE SALES TAX, EVERYTHING ELSE. 
          BUT IT'S THE CITY'S JOB TO LOOK AT THE BACK END AND SAY, WHAT IS IT GONNA TAKE AND HOW ARE WE GONNA PAY FOR IT? AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, I MEAN PRIOR, THE DEVELOPERS ARE A BIG PART OF THE SOLUTION. 
          UM, THEY CAN ALSO BE THE BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM IF YOU'RE NOT DIRECTING THEM IN THE, IN THE RIGHT WAY. 
          SO YES MA'AM. 
          WHAT YOU HAVEN'T INTEGRATED INTO THIS PRESENTATION THAT I EXPECT YOU HAVE CONSIDERED, UH, IS PARKS AND RECREATION AND THE APPROPRIATE BALANCE BETWEEN PARKS AND RECREATION, WHICH TEND TO NOT GENERATE REVENUE, BUT THEY'RE CRITICAL FOR QUALITY OF LIFE. 
          GREAT. 
          SO WHAT WE'RE NOT REALLY CONSIDERING IN THESE PRESENTATIONS IS QUALITY OF LIFE, WHICH I THINK, YOU KNOW, IS REALLY IMPORTANT. 
          IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I MOVED TALK TO KYLE BECAUSE I WANTED EXACTLY OPPOSITE WHAT SHE DID. 
           I MOVED CONCRETE BECAUSE I'D LIKE THE CONCEPT IN THE MIRROR AREAS OF CONCRETE WHERE YOU HAVE THE VERY SMALL LOTS PEOPLE SIT ON THEIR FRONT PORCHES AND MEET EACH OTHER. 
          WE HAVE HOUSES THAT ARE ON A GREEN BELT AND THEY FACE EACH OTHER, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY FROM FOUR OR FIVE BLOCKS. 
          THAT'S WHAT I WANTED. 
          THAT'S NOT FOR EVERYBODY, BUT THE QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES, THE NEW URBANISM THAT WE'VE BEEN USING IN SOME OF OUR DEVELOPMENT CONCEPTS LIKE, LIKE, UM, SOME MORTAR UM, THE FIVE CONCEPT I THINK IS PHENOMENAL. 
          UH, BUT IT YOU'RE, WE'RE NOT REALLY INCLUDING THAT IN THIS. 
          SO DO YOU HAVE SOME METRICS ON THAT? YEAH, SO GREG, ANOTHER GREAT POINT. 
          I I REALLY APPRECIATE THE QUE THE POINT AND THE POINT AND THE QUESTION. 
          UM, SO QUALITY OF LIFE THERE, THERE WAS A GREAT STUDY FROM IBM YEARS AGO NOW, PROBABLY 10, 12 YEARS AGO, BUT QUALITY OF LIFE IS ULTIMATELY MEASURED AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL. 
          AND THE BEST METRIC FOR THAT IS THE PROPERTY VALUE. 
          IF YOU'RE BUILDING A GREAT NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO BE, THE PROPERTY VALUES ARE GONNA GO UP. 
          IF YOU'RE BUILDING A CRAPPY NEIGHBORHOOD OR YOU'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF IT, THEN PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LEAVE, RIGHT? BUT OPEN SPACE, UM, OPEN SPACE IS CRITICAL TO QUALITY OF LIFE. 
          UM, AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WE, IN THE EARLY YEARS OF VIRGINITY, WE, WE DID A LOT OF WHAT, WHAT I CALL STACK FUNCTION GREEN INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT IT WAS, IT'S USING OPEN SPACE IN A WAY THAT MANAGED STORM WATER, BUT IT ALSO CREATED QUALITY OPEN SPACE THAT, THAT ADDED VALUE. 
          SO WHEN YOU PUT APART A LOT OF THE, LIKE THE DOWNTOWN EXAMPLES THAT WE SHOW, THEY'LL HAVE LIKE ONE BLOCK THAT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S TAX EXEMPT, IT'S NOT GENERATING PROPERTY TAX, BUT IT'S CONTRIBUTING TO THE VALUE OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          I THINK PARKS AND OPEN SPACE ARE SIMILAR. 
          WE CAN, WE CAN LOOK AT BUFFERS AROUND DIFFERENT KINDS OF DIFFERENT SHAPES AND SIZES OF PARKS AND WHAT THAT DOES TO, TO QUALITY OF LIFE. 
          BUT, YOU KNOW, OPEN SPACE AND PARKING ARE TWO THINGS THERE. 
          THERE'S DIFFERENT DATA POINTS THAT YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT. 
          IF, IF ALL YOU'RE DOING IS TRYING TO MAXIMIZE VALUE PER ACRE AND WE SAY, OH, LET'S PUT A BUILDING ON EVERY INCH OF EVERY LOT, RIGHT? THAT'S GOING TOO FAR. 
          THE THE OTHER WAY. 
          SO WHERE CAN YOU PUT REGIONAL DETENTION? WHERE CAN YOU PUT SHARED OPEN SPACE THAT ADDS VALUE TO THE COMMUNITY AND TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD? UM, KNOWING THAT THAT PORTION OF LAND IS NOT GONNA GENERATE TAX REVENUE, BUT IT IS ADDING TO THE VALUES OF WHAT'S AROUND IT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, IN OPEN SPACE TWO, SAME THING SCALE RURAL ESTATE, IF YOU'RE OUT KIND OF IN THE COUNTRY, YOU DON'T NEED NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS A FIVE ACRE LOT, RIGHT? ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DRIVES ME NUTS IN A LOT OF 
          [01:25:01]
SUBURBAN NEIGHBORHOODS, INCLUDING MINE, IS WE HAVE HOMES WITH BIG BACKYARDS AND THEN WE HAVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS LIKE LITERARY RIGHT DOWN THE STREET AND THEN ANOTHER. 
          SO WE, WE HAVE A LOT OF OPEN SPACE THAT DOESN'T ALL GET USED BECAUSE, UM, WE HAVE, WE HAVE BASICALLY TOO MUCH OF IT. 
          SO ANYWAY, I THINK, AJ AM I ON TRACK OR ARE WE YEAH, I THINK WE'RE GONNA TAKE A BREAK BEFORE WE MOVE INTO THE NEXT SECTION. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          SO WE'RE GONNA TAKE A BREAK BEFORE WE GET INTO THE, THE COUNCIL PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          ON THE NEXT PART, WE'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS THAT KIND OF, THOSE THREE TAKEAWAYS, WE'RE GONNA DIG DEEPER INTO THOSE THREE AND TAKE MORE QUESTIONS AND HAVE MORE DISCUSSION ON 'EM. 
          UM, YOU GUYS ARE WELCOME TO STAY AND LISTEN TO THAT CONVERSATION AS WELL. 
          UM, WE DO HAVE A, A QUICK BREAK, SO IF YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR, FOR ME OR FOR OUR TEAM, WE CAN TAKE THOSE BEFORE WE GET INTO THE NEXT ONE. 
          BUT YEAH, POINT TO END WITH REMINDING YOU ABOUT THIS. 
          THIS WILL GIVE YOU MORE CHANCE TO INTERACT WITH OUR TEAM ONE-ON-ONE ON WEDNESDAY THE 15TH, NOT TUESDAY THE 13TH. 
          JUST AN ACCIDENT. 
          YES. 
          IS THERE ANY WAY TO UPDATE THIS SLIDE? SO WE, WE'VE ALREADY BEFORE THAT? YEAH, THAT, YEAH, LIKE RIGHT NOW WE'VE ALREADY DONE IT. 
          IT WON'T BE ON THIS ONE RIGHT HERE, BUT THE ONE THAT I'M ABOUT TO HAND OVER ASKING YEAH, IF ANYBODY'S WATCHING AT HOME. 
          I'M JUST GONNA REITERATE THIS VERBALLY SINCE YOU MAY NOT, BUT IT'S, YEAH, IT'S WEDNESDAY THE 15TH. 
          UM, THE TIMES AND THE LOCATIONS ARE RIGHT, BUT THE DATE UP THERE IS WRONG. 
          SO IT'S WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 15TH. 
          SO GO HAVE YOURSELF A GOOD VALENTINE'S DAY . 
          UM, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LITTLE VALENTINE'S DAY AMONGST OURSELVES WITH OUR TEAM, AND, UH, BUT YEAH, WEDNESDAY THE 15TH IS WHEN THOSE MEETINGS ARE HAPPENING, SO, AND WE'LL GET, MAKE SURE THE, THE VERSION THAT WE GET TO YOU TO PUT UP IS FIXED. 
          THANK YOU GUYS, VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOU COMING OUT.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.