* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. EVENING THE TIME IS [00:00:01] 7:00 PM TODAY IS TUESDAY, MARCH 28TH. I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS, UH, REGULAR SCHEDULED PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. MEETING TO ORDER. CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? DELORE MATA. HERE. ANKIN. HERE. GARRA. HERE. STEGEL. HERE. JAMES. HERE. CHASE HERE. THANK YOU. WE HAVE A QUORUM. ITEM NUMBER THREE [3.  Minutes] MINUTES. UH, THREE. A PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES FOR FEBRUARY 28TH, 2023. REGULAR MEETING, MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. WITH A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM THREE A. THANK YOU. THERE IS A MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND THAT. THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY, UH, VICE CHAIR. CHAIR, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MATA. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT MOTION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? UH, UM, MOTION PASSES. ITEM NUMBER FOUR, CITIZEN COMMENTS. AT THIS TIME, IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, YOU MAY COME UP NOW. SEEING NONE, I WILL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE. CITIZEN COMMENT, CITIZEN COMMENTS IS NOW CLOSED. ITEM NUMBER FIVE, [5.  Consent] CONSENT AGENDA. WE HAVE ITEMS A AND B ON CONSENT TODAY WITH A MOTION. YES, SIR. I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE ITEMS FIVE A AND FIVE B ON CONSENT. THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN, UH, UM, THERE'S BEEN A MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED. UH, UM, MOVED BY COMMISSIONER JAMES, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER STEEGLE. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT MOTION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED. MOTION PASSES. [6.  Presentation] ITEM NUMBER SIX, WORKSHOP SIX. A DISCUSSION REGARDING BUILDING TYPOLOGY WITHIN PLACE TYPE CATEGORIES FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. MR. ATKINSON, THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. UH, WILL ATKINSON, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING FOR THE RECORD, UH, ONLINE. WE SHOULD HAVE, UH, AJ AND MEMBERS OF YOUR TEAM, AND THEY'RE GONNA BE DISCUSSING, AS SAID, ON THE, UH, ON THE AGENDA BUILDING TYPOLOGIES FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO, AJ, IF YOU'RE THERE, UH, GO FOR IT. JUST A MOMENT. BEAR WITH US JUST, UH, FOR A MOMENT, PLEASE. HEY, JAY, CAN Y'ALL, CAN Y'ALL HEAR US? WELL? THEY'RE ON, BUT, UH, DOING SOME TROUBLESHOOTING. YEAH, IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T MIND DOING A RECESS JUST REAL QUICK AND WHILE WE FIGURE OUT THE TEXT STUFF. UH, YES, SIR. I, I, I'M [00:05:01] GONNA, I'M GONNA SAY THAT WE WILL GO INTO RECESS NOW, UH, TILL, WE'LL RECONVENE AT 7:10 PM THANK YOU. WE ARE IN RECESS NOW. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THE [1.  Call Meeting To Order] TIME IS 7:10 PM I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS MEETING BACK TO ORDER. UM, MR. ATKINSON, ARE WE GOOD TO GO FOR IT? WE SHOULD BE GOOD. UH, AJ, CAN YOU HEAR US? YES. GREAT. AWESOME. UH, WE HAVE AJ, UM, FATHER AND HER, UH, TEAM ON THE LINE FROM BRD. THEY'RE GONNA BE PRESENTING, UH, THE, UH, PLACE TYPE TYPOLOGIES PER THE AGENDA. SO, UH, TAKE IT AWAY, AJ OR BUILDING TYPOLOGY. EXCUSE ME. OKAY, WELL, YES. UM, GOOD EVENING TO ALL OF YOU. GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL AGAIN, VIRTUALLY. UM, WE'LL BE WALKING THROUGH A, A FAIRLY SHORT PRESENTATION. WE WANNA TRY TO KEEP IT PROBABLY AROUND AN HOUR. UM, AND SO WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE DO TONIGHT WITH YOU AS A GROUP IS TO ESSENTIALLY GET SOME VERIFICATION OF THE DIRECTION WE'RE HEADED, UM, AS WE CONTINUE WORKING THROUGH THE PREPARATIONS OF THIS DOCUMENT. WE HAVE SOME GOOD FEEDBACK DURING TRIP TWO WHEN WE WERE IN TOWN RECENTLY, AND THAT FEEDBACK HAS, UH, RESULTED IN SOME MODIFICATIONS AND FINE TUNING THAT WE'LL DISCUSS WITH YOU ALL TONIGHT. UM, SO WE'LL JUST LAUNCH RIGHT INTO THIS. AND WE DO INTEND FOR THIS TO BE SOMEWHAT INTERACTIVE. UH, WE DO ASK FOR THE SAME ASSISTANCE THAT YOU PROVIDED US LAST TIME, WHICH WORKED REALLY WELL, WHICH IS JUST TO, UH, IDENTIFY WHO'S SPEAKING BEFORE THEY START MAKING THEIR COMMENTS. THAT REALLY HELPS US WITH OUR NOTE TAKING, UM, AS WE ARE LIMITED TO WHAT WE CAN SEE OF YOU ON OUR SCREENS HERE, UH, WHERE WE'RE WORKING FROM. UM, AND THEN SECONDLY, WE WILL, UM, KEEP THE PROGRESSION OF THE EVENING MOVING FORWARD. WE'VE GOT SEVERAL DIFFERENT, UH, TOPICS THAT WE'LL DISCUSS. AND SO MARSHALL, IF YOU'LL ADVANCE THE FIRST SLIDE, UM, I'LL TOUCH BRIEFLY ON THE PURPOSE OF, OF TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION. SO YOU MIGHT RECALL US TALKING ABOUT, AND SOME OF YOU I THINK MAY HAVE EVEN COME OUT TO SOME OF THE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT EVENTS THAT WE HAD DURING TRIP TWO. UH, THE PURPOSE OF WHICH WAS REALLY TO, UM, HONE IN ON PLACE TYPES FOR THE COMMUNITY. AND THOSE ARE IN LIEU OF THE TRADITIONAL FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORIES. UH, THEY ARE INTENDED TO BE MORE CONTEXTUAL IN NATURE AND TO ESTABLISH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT AREAS AROUND THE CITY. AND THEN WITHIN THOSE PLACE TYPES, WE LOOK AT BUILDING TYPES OR TYPOLOGIES, UM, DIFFERENT SORTS OF HOUSING UNITS AND STRUCTURES THAT TO CAN TOGETHER BUILD THESE PLACE TYPES AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE CONTEXT AND THE CHARACTER THAT WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD. SO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TONIGHT IS REVIEW THOSE REVISED PLACE TYPES AND THE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES ASSOCIATED WITH THEM. WE SAY REVISED, UM, SIMPLY BECAUSE WE HAVE MADE SOME SMALL EDITS AND MODIFICATIONS TO THIS INFORMATION. AND THAT'S BASED ON A COMBINATION OF THINGS. WE DID SPEND QUITE A BIT OF TIME DURING TRIP TWO WITH YOUR STAFF, UH, STAFF FROM SEVERAL DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS WITH THE CITY. AND SO THERE WERE SOME PIECES OF FEEDBACK WE RECEIVED FROM THOSE GROUPS THAT WAS IMPORTANT AND ILLUSTRATIVE THAT WE HAVE IN INTEGRATED INTO THESE. WE LIKEWISE SPENT SOME TIME WITH THE PUBLIC AND GETTING SOME FEEDBACK ON THESE DIFFERENT PLACE TYPES AND BUILDING TYPES, AND WE'VE MADE SOME MODIFICATIONS BASED ON THAT AS WELL. AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT WE REALLY DID DURING TRIP TWO IN UM, CONTEXT, I'M SORRY, IN CONCERT RATHER WITH YOUR STAFF, WAS TALK THROUGH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PLANNING, PLANNING DOCUMENTS AND LONG RANGE PLANNING LIMITATIONS AND THOUGHTS THAT THEY WANTED US TO BE AWARE OF. AND SO THAT ALSO HAS, UM, BEEN FINESSED AND WORKED INTO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW TO YOU TONIGHT. SO WE'RE GOING TO ASK FOR YOUR INPUT. AND SO WE WILL DO THIS IN A SERIES OF MODULES, ESSENTIALLY. UM, I'LL ASK KARINA TO OPEN WITH TALKING ABOUT THAT SPECIFIC PLACE TYPE AND THE CONTEXT BEHIND IT. SHE'S GONNA SHOW YOU USING SOME DIFFERENT MAPS WHERE WE'RE CALLING FOR THAT PLACE TYPE TO BE APPLIED THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF KYLE. AND THEN MARSHALL'S GOING TO COVER THE DIFFERENT BUILDING TYPOLOGIES THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING WITHIN EACH OF THOSE PLACE TYPES. WE'VE ALSO INCLUDED SOME, UH, VISUALS TO HELP YOU SEE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALL SEEING THE SAME THING AND IMAGINING THE SAME THING. AND AT THE END OF EACH OF THOSE, UM, PIECES AND EACH PLACE TYPE DISCUSSION, I'LL THEN COME IN AND KIND OF FACILITATE US WALKING THROUGH A SHORT DISCUSSION. WHAT WE REALLY WANNA HONE IN ON IS IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE APPROPRIATENESS OF A CERTAIN BUILDING TYPOLOGY. [00:10:01] WE'RE GONNA ASK FOR SOME QUESTIONS, UM, OF CLARIFICATION. WE'RE GONNA ASK FOR SOME DIFFERENT ADJUSTMENTS OR CUES THAT YOU FEEL MIGHT HELP SERVE AS GUIDELINES FOR WHEN THAT SPECIFIC BUILDING TYPE MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE. AND SO THIS WILL ALSO BUILD ON THE WORKSHOP THAT WE HELD WITH YOU ALL AND THE CITY COUNCIL. WE GOT SOME REALLY GOOD FEEDBACK AND HIGH LEVEL INFORMATION, UM, THAT WE'LL BE BUILDING ON TONIGHT AS WELL. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. OKAY, SO I'M GOING TO HAND IT OFF TO KARINA. SHE'S GONNA START WITH TALKING ABOUT THE RURAL ESTATE PLACE TYPE. THANK YOU. SO WE'RE GONNA START ON THE LOWER DENSITY AND THEN WE'LL MOVE ON IN INTENSITIES. UM, SO RURAL ESTATE IS, UM, AS IT DESCRIBES IT, IT IS THE RURAL AREA. SO THIS IS FURTHER AWAY FROM THE CITY CENTER. THESE TYPICALLY ARE LARGE LOTS, UM, AWAY FROM THE CITY CENTER, AWAY FROM PUBLIC SERVICES. SO MOST OF THESE ARE NOT ALREADY SERVICED. UM, THEY WILL TYPICALLY HAVE MINIMAL INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT JUST SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO, UM, EXPAND THE BURDEN ON THE CITY TO SERVICE THESE AREAS BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BE LOWER DENSITY. UM, THEY'RE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ALL SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. THERE MAY BE SOME HOME-BASED BUSINESSES THAT COME OUT OF THIS. SO IT COULD BE LIKE A FARMER'S MARKET OR SOMEONE WHO'S SELLING WHAT THEY GROW ON THEIR LAND OR WHAT THEY RAISE ON THEIR LAND AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, SO THIS IS THE, THESE ARE THE AREAS THAT WE SELECTED FOR THIS. UM, THEY'RE ALREADY RURAL, THEY'RE LOW DENSITY, AND IT MADE SENSE, UM, LOOKING AT THE TOPOGRAPHY, LOOKING AT HOW A LOT OF IT IS IN THE FLOODPLAIN. AND WHEN WE HEARD FEEDBACK FROM THE LAST TRIP AND FROM STAFF AS WE'VE TALKED IN CONVERSATIONS, THIS, UM, ALL MAKES SENSE. IT ALL MATCHED WITH WHAT WAS PROVIDED TO US. UM, AND THEN OF COURSE, THIS IS GOING TO BE MOSTLY SINGLE FAMILY. SO MARSHA, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND TALK ABOUT THOSE PLACED, THOSE TYPOLOGIES. GOOD EVENING. SO KARINA DID, UH, SORT OF START US OFF DISCUSSING THE, UM, THE, UH, BUILDING TYPOLOGIES THAT ARE GENERALLY APPROPRIATE HERE. THE VAST MAJORITY OF WHAT YOU'RE GONNA FIND IN RURAL ESTATE WILL BE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSES, UM, ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY. NOW, WHAT WE DO WANT TO DO, AND WE FOUND FAIRLY BROAD SUPPORT DURING THE ENGAGEMENT ACTIVITIES, UH, FOR, WAS THE ABILITY TO ALLOW THOSE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED PROPERTIES TO ALSO HAVE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. SO THE ABILITY FOR SOMEBODY'S MOTHER-IN-LAW TO MOVE IN, OR A CHILD WHO HASN'T MOVED OUT TO HAVE, UM, ANOTHER UNIT, UH, SEPARATED FROM THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AVAILABLE FOR SOMEONE TO LIVE IN. UM, IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT THAT SOME CAPACITY, SOME NON-RESIDENTIAL CAPACITY IS MADE AVAILABLE OUT HERE. AND SO WE'VE SELECTED THE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE NON-RESIDENTIAL TYPOLOGY. UM, THESE WOULD GENERALLY BE SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF A, UH, SMALL RURAL MARKET, OR AS KARINA MENTIONED, SOMEONE COULD HAVE A FARM STAND IF THEY HAVE FARM PROPERTY AS WELL. BUT ULTIMATELY WHAT WE'RE GETTING AT HERE IS THAT WE DON'T WANT TO PRECLUDE THE ABILITY OF, UH, NON-RESIDENTIAL ACTIVITY TO HAPPEN IN THE RURAL ESTATE PLACE TYPE. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT FITS THE CONTEXT OF THE RURAL ESTATE PLACE TYPE. SO I AM GONNA POP US OVER TO THE NEXT ONE AND LET KARINA, OH, EXCUSE ME. I APOLOGIZE. I'M GONNA GO BACK TO AJ AND LET HER TAKE OVER WITH SOME QUESTIONS. YEAH. SO LET'S, LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS ONE FOR A MINUTE. THIS IS, OF COURSE, THE LEAST INTENSIVE OF THE DIFFERENT PLACE TYPES, UM, THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED. AND SO OUR INITIAL QUESTION OR PLACE TO START WOULD BE, UM, DOES ANYONE ON THE P N Z GROUP HAVE ANY QUALMS OR CONCERNS ABOUT THESE THREE TYPES OF BUILDING TYPOLOGIES AS BEING APPROPRIATE IN THOSE LOCATIONS IN THAT CONTEXT? I, UM, AJ, UH, THIS IS CHAIRMAN, UH, GUERRA. UM, I, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT MAP. YES, THANK YOU. THE MAP. OKAY. THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT WERE LISTED AS RULE THAT I THINK THIS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR. THERE ARE SOME AREAS HIGHLIGHTED. I'M SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT THE SOUTHEASTERN PORTION THAT, UH, WILL, THAT AR, THAT'S LIKE RIGHT OFF A ONE 50 GOING TOWARDS 21, RIGHT. WILL ATKINSON, FOR THE RECORD, UH, REINA, YES, IT IS, UM, CURRENT, THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. CURRENTLY, THERE'S NO WASTEWATER SERVICE OUT THERE WITH A COUPLE OF EXCEPTIONS. THANK YOU. SO THAT IS AN AREA THAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT MAKING, YOU KNOW, PUTTING IT ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD AS ALL THAT LARGE AREA TO THE WEST. UH, UH, UH, UH, UH, YOUR ACTUAL QUESTION, THE THREE, THE THREE TYPES, I, I BELIEVE THOSE DO, I I, I DO AGREE WITH THOSE AS BEING IN THE RURAL AREA. I AM JUST WORRIED ABOUT THAT SECTION OF THE CITY BEING CALLED THAT RURAL AREA. THAT WAS MY [00:15:01] CONCERN. THANK YOU. AND SO IS YES, THAT, BECAUSE YOU'RE SEEKING THAT TO BE MORE INTENSIVE IN DEVELOPMENT? YES. OKAY. SO WE MAY EXPLORE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE. THIS IS THE LEAST INTENSIVE. SO AS WE GO THROUGH THE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF INTENSITY AND PLACE TYPES, UM, LET'S KEEP THAT IN THE BACK OF OUR MIND AND PERHAPS WE CAN IDENTIFY AN ALTERNATIVE FOR THAT AREA. THANK YOU. AND AJ, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I'LL JUST POP IN HERE AND, UH, SAY THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THIS PARTICULAR AREA WAS, UH, SELECTED AS SUCH IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL MENTIONED. UM, WE DO WANT TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT INFRASTRUCTURE AVAILABILITY, UH, IN THE VARIOUS PARTS OF THE CITY. SO A LACK OF SIGNIFICANT INFRASTRUCTURE AVAILABILITY IS ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT WENT INTO WHY WE SELECTED SOME OF THESE PLACE TYPES. I DO ALSO WANT TO ADD THAT IT'S NOT SHOWN ON THESE MAPS, UNFORTUNATELY, BUT THERE IS, UM, WHERE RIGHT AT THE INTERSECTION THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, THERE IS ANOTHER NODE FOR THE, THE COMMERCIAL PORTION. SO WE WILL BE SEEING THAT FURTHER, CLOSER TO THE INTERSECTION THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT. BUT LEADING UP TO THAT, IT IS RURAL. THIS IS, UH, COMMISSIONER JAMES, I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON, UH, THAT, THAT THE LOWER EDGE OF THAT MAP, IT KIND OF CUTS OFF BEFORE ONE 50. IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN KIND OF SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE AS WE APPROACH ONE 50? LIKE HOW FAR DOES RURAL ESTATE GO BEFORE IT HITS WHAT I ASSUME WOULD BE A MORE INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL USE ON 21 COMMERCIAL? I'M NOT SURE IF YOU CAN SHARE IT ON YOUR SCREEN. ARE ARE WE JUST ASKING TO SEE WHERE IT BECOMES REGIONAL COMMERCIAL? I CAN POP OVER TO THAT ONE. UM, IT RUNS SHOWN ON THIS SLIDES. I THINK IT, IT CUTS OFF RIGHT ABOVE THAT NODE. YEAH. ONE SECOND. SO WE CAN SEE THERE'S ANOTHER NODE FURTHER DOWN. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. I, I WILL MENTION TO EVERYONE THAT WE WERE TRYING TO, UH, MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE AS MUCH OF THE CITY AS WE COULD WITH THE LIMITATION OF THE, UH, SCREEN SHARING CAPABILITIES. SO MY APOLOGIES. BUT, UM, YES, THERE IS ANOTHER NOTE AT THE SOUTHERN EDGE OF THIS THAT BEGINS JUST DOWN WHERE THE GREEN BAR IS. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE BEFORE WE MOVE TO THE NEXT CATEGORY? UM, THIS IS COMMISSIONER ANKIN. UM, I'M YES COM I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THE, THE THREE PRESENTED HERE, BUT I DID HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT, UM, THESE MIGHT BE MORE SPECIFIC USES, BUT BEAR WITH ME. I'M NEW AT THIS, SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THESE KINDS OF THINGS ARE COVERED. UM, I KNOW OUT IN THE HILL COUNTRY THERE'S A LOT OF EQUESTRIAN CENTERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, UM, KIND OF BETWEEN HERE AND SOME OF THE NEIGHBORING AREAS. WOULD, UM, LIKE A HORSE FARM, AN EQUESTRIAN CENTER, OR UM, MAYBE LIKE TOURISM THINGS LIKE A HOTEL OR SOMETHING BE INCLUDED IN RURAL ESTATE TOPOGRAPHY SUCH AS THESE? OR WOULD THAT NOT BE PERMITTED? AM I EVEN ASKING US AT THE RIGHT TIME? SO I'LL, I'LL TAKE THE FIRST PART OF THAT QUESTION, UM, AND THEN I'LL LET MARSHALL PERHAPS ADD TO THAT AS WELL. SO WHERE I'LL START WITH IT IS KEEP IN MIND THAT, UM, WITH THE, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WE WON'T BE, UM, AUTHORIZING PERMITTING OR PRECLUDING USES FROM, UM, BEING ALLOWED IN CERTAIN ZONING DISTRICTS THAT'LL BE LEFT TO THE CODE SPECIFICALLY. OKAY. BUT WHAT WE WILL BE DOING WITH THE PLAN IS CREATING THE FRAMEWORK WITHIN WHICH THOSE TOOLS ARE APPLIED. SO GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHEN THE STAFF GETS A REQUEST, UM, LET'S SAY LET'S USE YOUR EQUESTRIAN CENTER, UM, AS A POTENTIAL REQUEST THAT COMES TO THE CITY STAFF. THEY WOULD LOOK AT YOUR ZONING CODE TO SEE WHAT THE ALLOWANCES FOR THAT, UM, WOULD BE. AND IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT REQUIRED A ZONING CHANGE, THEN YOU ALL AS THE PLAIN AND ZONING COMMISSION, AND OF COURSE THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD BE INVOLVED IN THAT PROCESS AS WELL, WOULD WEIGH THE CONSIDERATION OF THAT ZONING CHANGE AGAINST WHAT THIS PLACE TYPE CALLS FOR AND WOULD DETERMINE IS IT CONSISTENT, UM, THIS SPECIFIC REQUEST WITH THIS IDEA OF THE CONTEXT OF RURAL ESTATE. SO YOU WILL STILL HAVE THE ABILITY, UM, TO BE DISCERNING ABOUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. AND SO WE WON'T BE SPECIFYING A LIST OF ALLOWED OR PERMITTED USES, BUT WHAT WE WILL BE DOING IS [00:20:01] CREATING THE CONTEXT, SO THE LOOK AND THE FEEL OF THE AREA. AND MARSHALL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO BUILD ON THAT AT ALL. SURE. UM, SO AS AJ SAID, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE CREATING A FRAMEWORK AND WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE NON-RESIDENTIAL TYPOLOGIES WOULD CERTAINLY FIT WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE RURAL ESTATE, UM, CONTEXT, UM, FOR THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, A SMALL BED AND BREAKFAST OR A, UM, OR AN EQUESTRIAN CENTER OR, OR PERHAPS EVEN A SMALL RURAL HOTEL. BUT WHAT IT DOESN'T SUGGEST AS MAKES SENSE, WOULD BE A 15 STORY URBAN HOTEL OUT HERE IN THE RURAL ESTATE BECAUSE THE BUILDING TYPOLOGY IS CONTEXT APPROPRIATE TO THE RURAL ESTATE PLACE TYPE. SO AGAIN, WE AREN'T AUTHORIZING ONE OVER THE OTHER, BUT BROADLY SPEAKING, THE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE NON-RESIDENTIAL TYPOLOGY WOULD, UM, GENERALLY SUGGEST THAT THE ITEMS YOU ARE MENTIONING MAKE PRETTY GOOD SENSE SHOULD YOUR CODE ALLOW FOR IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR ASKING THAT QUESTION. I THINK IT WAS AN IMPORTANT ONE AND UM, I THINK IS A GOOD SEGUE INTO WHAT WE'RE DOING TONIGHT. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS BEFORE WE MOVE INTO THE NEXT CATEGORY? OKAY, HEARING NONE. UM, LET'S GO AHEAD, UM, MARSHALL IN ADVANCE TO THE NEXT TRADITIONAL MIXED USE CATEGORY. OKAY. SO IN THE TRADITIONAL MIXED USE, THIS IS GOING TO BE A MIX OF USES. UM, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY LIKE AN MIXED DE MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT'S MORE OF A TRADITIONAL DEVELOPMENT, SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE SMALLER, LOTS, SMALLER SETBACKS, SMALLER BLOCKS, AND A DIVERSE HOUSING TYPOLOGY AND JUST GENERAL MIX OF USES. SO LIKE THE OLD NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THERE WAS A CONVENIENCE STORE IN THE CORNER AND THERE WAS LIKE BARBERSHOP, A BEAUTY SALON, SALON AND DRY CLEANERS DOWN THE STREET THERE, THERE'S A KIND OF A MIX OF USES AND THINGS CHANGE AND ADAPT OVER TIME. SO THERE IS GOING TO BE CONVERTED HOMES THAT ARE GOING TO BE LET, LET'S SAY MAYBE A LAW OFFICE OR A MEDICAL BUILDING. UM, AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO GENERALLY BE SOMEWHERE THAT YOU CAN LIVE, SHOP, WORK, GATHER AND ACCESS ALL THESE ACTIVITIES ON FOOT SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET IN YOUR CAR SO YOU CAN GRAB SOMETHING TO HAVE DINNER OR GRAB A COFFEE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UM, AND BUILDING SHOULD GENERALLY BE LIMITED TO THREE STORIES. SO YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE OUT OF CONTEXT, YOU WANT IT TO BE BLENDING IN WITH THE REST OF THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THE WAY THAT THIS WAS DETERMINED, IT'S BASICALLY, UM, WHEREVER YOU WANT FOR IT TO BE RURAL, UM, THAT ISN'T, UH, LIKE APARTMENTS. UM, SO THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY APARTMENTS THAT ARE ALLOWED IN HERE. IT'S MORE OF EVERYTHING ELSE BELOW THAT. UM, IT'S GOING TO BE AWAY FROM THE HEAVIER ROAD, SO AWAY FROM 35 AND STILL BEING SERVICED BY CITY SERVICES. OKAY. AND I'LL TALK US THROUGH THE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES THAT WOULD BROADLY, UH, FIT INTO TRADITIONAL MIXED USE, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED. OF COURSE. UM, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT WE DO HAVE ADUS ON THIS AS WELL. WE'VE SELECTED, UH, A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PICTURE FOR THIS ONE BECAUSE WE WANT TO ILLUSTRATE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO UNDERSTAND THAT BUILDING TYPOLOGIES, UM, HAVE A WIDE SPECTRUM OF DESIGN STYLES AND LOOKS BASED ON THE CONTEXT. SO YOU'LL NOTICE THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR IMAGE, UH, THIS A D U SHOWS A MORE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE, UM, UH, CONTEXT, YOU KNOW, AT A STREET FRONTED BUILDING, UH, WE WOULD ALLOW FOR COTTAGE COURTS, WHICH ARE A SERIES OF SMALLER HOMES AROUND A CENTRAL GREEN SPACE TOWNHOMES, BROADLY SPEAKING OR ATTACHED, UM, UH, HOUSING TYPOLOGY, SMALL PLEXES, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THINGS LIKE DUPLEXES, TRIPLEXES, QUADPLEXES, UH, LIVE WORK UNITS, WHICH IS WHEN YOU HAVE TWO USES INSIDE ONE BUILDING. BUT IT'S GENERALLY ONE SINGLE RESIDENTIAL USE ABOVE OR BEHIND, UH, A NON-RESIDENTIAL. SO COMMERCIAL OR OFFICE USE. FEW OVER IS THE BUILDING TYPOLOGY THAT IS EFFECTIVELY THE STEP UP IN INTENSITY FROM LIVE WORK. SO YOU WOULD HAVE A SMALL NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL UNITS OVER, UM, A SMALL NUMBER OF NON-RESIDENTIAL USES. AND THEN WE STILL INCLUDE THE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE NON-RESIDENTIAL BUILDING TYPOLOGY. BUT OF COURSE, IN THE TRADITIONAL MIXED USE CONTEXT, IT TAKES ON A DIFFERENT FORM. YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE SEEING AS MANY FARM STANDS AND, UM, GENERAL STORES, YOU'RE GONNA SEE THINGS LIKE PERHAPS A HOUSE THAT CONVERTS TO A RESTAURANT OR, UH, ANOTHER SMALL SCALE SHOPPING OPPORTUNITY. AND I'LL PASS IT BACK OVER TO AJ FOR QUESTIONS. [00:25:01] THANK YOU. SO A FEW MORE DIFFERENT TYPES OF BUILDINGS AND THIS PARTICULAR CATEGORY. UM, I THINK TO KARINA'S POINT, IT IS ENVISIONED AS THE TYPE OF TRADITIONAL TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, THE TRADITIONAL PATTERNS THAT WE'RE USED TO SEEING IN COMMUNITIES, UM, A VERY WALKABLE PATTERN. AND SO LET'S, UM, TAKE A MINUTE TO TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT BUILDING TYPOLOGIES THAT MARSHALL JUST WENT THROUGH. UM, ANY THOUGHTS, CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS REGARDING ANY ONE OR MORE OF THESE TYPES? YES, SIR. GO AHEAD. UH, THIS IS COMMISSIONER JAMES AGAIN. UM, I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EXCLUDING APARTMENTS, BUT YOU LISTED THE ONLY STREET WHERE IT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL APARTMENTS ON CROMWELL THERE. SO I THINK THERE IS, LIKE, THERE IS A, IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP, THERE'S A LOT OF THIS CITY COVERED IN, IN THIS SPECIFIC, UM, IDEA OF THESE, UH, USES IN BROAD WHATEVER WE'RE GONNA CALL THIS THING. UM, I DON'T KNOW THE WORD OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD TYPOLOGY, UH, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE VERY LOW INTENSIVE IN SPACES WHERE THERE IS ALREADY A MID INTENSIVE USE. SO I'M CURIOUS AS TO THE INTENT OF THIS. MM-HMM. . OKAY. UM, AND I THINK MARSHALL WILL PROBABLY HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ON THIS TOO, BUT I'LL START BY SAYING, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DID DO IN REFINING DURING THAT SECOND TRIP IS WE DID HEAR A LOT FROM THE CITY STAFF ABOUT THE CAPACITY, UH, FOR WATER SERVICE TO THE EXISTING COMMUNITY AND FUTURE COMMUNITY. WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE SOME LIMITATIONS, UH, THERE. AND SO WE DID RECALIBRATE SLIGHTLY OUR APPROACH TO TRYING TO MAINTAIN, UM, THE ABILITY FOR SOME GENERAL DENSITY THAT IS IN KEEPING WITH AND CAN TRANSITION INTO THE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE THERE, BUT ALSO, UM, BUT BEEF UP THE REVENUE PER ACRE GENERATION, UH, IN THOSE AREAS. SO WE WERE, UM, SORT OF CAUTIONED AGAINST TRYING TO BE TOO, UM, LIBERAL WITH APPLYING THE ABILITY FOR APARTMENT COMPLEXES WIDESPREAD THROUGHOUT THE CITY. WE ALSO DID GET, UM, SOME DIFFERENT FEEDBACK, UM, FROM THE PUBLIC DURING THE TRIP AND THE ACTIVITIES. AND I DON'T KNOW MARSHALL IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO THAT AS IT RELATES TO APARTMENTS. SURE. UH, BEFORE, BEFORE I GET INTO THE FEEDBACK, I WANT TO, UH, CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES SPECIFICALLY APARTMENTS. ONE THING THAT WE HEARD BOTH FROM THE CITY COUNCIL AS WELL AS A LOT OF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, WAS THAT THERE IS A LEVEL OF APARTMENT INTENSITY THAT MOST FOLKS ARE COMFORTABLE WITH. AND THERE IS A THRESHOLD WHICH YOU CAN CROSS WHERE PEOPLE SAY, OKAY, THAT'S WHERE I THINK THAT THESE MAJOR SUBURBAN STYLE APARTMENT COMPLEXES NEED TO BE MORE THOUGHTFULLY PLACED. NOW WE HAVEN'T MADE IT TO THE REGIONAL COMMERCIAL PLACE TYPE, BUT JUST A PREVIEW. WE DO ALLOW FOR, UH, SUBURBAN STYLE MAJOR APARTMENT COMPLEXES INSIDE THE REGIONAL COMMERCIAL PLACE TYPE. AND WHAT THAT, WHAT YOU'LL FIND ON THAT PLACE TYPE WHEN WE GET TO IT, IS THAT IT DRAWS THOSE VERY, VERY INTENSE APARTMENTS CLOSER TO MAJOR INTERSECTIONS, WHICH IS EFFECTIVELY, UH, CLOSER TO LARGER ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE. UM, SO BACKING UP FROM THAT AND TALKING ABOUT THE TRADITIONAL MIXED USE PLACE TYPE SMALL PLEX IS ACTUALLY A VERY WIDE, UH, SPECTRUM OF HOUSING THAT WOULD TAKE US ALL THE WAY FROM, BROADLY SPEAKING, DUPLEXES UP TO 12 UNIT BUILDINGS. AND THERE SEEM TO BE FAIRLY BROAD CONSENSUS THAT THOSE STYLE BUILDINGS CAN FIT IN MORE PLACES ACROSS THE CITY. THEY CAN FIT INTO A CORNER LOT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY CAN FIT ONTO AN AVENUE LEVEL STREET, YOU KNOW, SLIGHTLY HIGHER INTENSITY STREET THAN, UM, A LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD STREET. AND SO THIS GIVES US THE CAPACITY IN A MUCH BROADER, UM, AREA ACROSS THE CITY TO ALLOW, UM, A SLIGHTLY MORE INTENSE FORM OF HOUSING WITHOUT INSTANTLY ALLOWING FOR VERY LARGE SUBURBAN, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEXES, UM, WIDELY ACROSS THE CITY. AND WHEN WE GET TO THAT, AS I MENTIONED, WE GET TO THAT REGIONAL COMMERCIAL PLACE TYPE, YOU'LL SEE WHERE WE HAVE CONCENTRATED THOSE A LITTLE BIT MORE. I HOPE THAT ANSWERS PART OF YOUR QUESTION. YES. AND I'LL JUST ADD BRIEFLY THAT THE, TO MARSHALL'S LAST POINT, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE ALSO TOOK AWAY FROM THE WORKSHOP WITH THE P AND Z AND THE CITY COUNCIL. WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THAT LAST EXERCISE WHERE WE WERE ASKING YOU TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT LEVELS OF INTENSITY AND TELL US KIND OF WHAT YOU FELT, UH, FIT THE CHARACTER OF THE AREA, WE DID GET, UM, SOME PRETTY CLEAR FEEDBACK [00:30:01] ABOUT THE, A APPROACH OF THE SMALL PLEX AS OPPOSED TO SOME OF THE MORE, UH, REGIONAL APARTMENT TYPES OF, OF COMPLEXES. NOW WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE, AS WE LOOK THROUGH ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT PLACE TYPES, THERE WILL BE, UH, EXAMPLES OF PLACES WHERE THINGS HAVE ALREADY DEVELOPED AND PREDICATED THIS PARTICULAR PLAN. AND THAT'S OKAY. UM, IT DOES NOT AFFECT ANY, IN ANY WAY THE ALLOWANCE FOR WHAT'S ALREADY BUILT AND IN PLACE. SO I DO WANNA MAKE SURE I MENTION THAT AS WELL, SO THAT IF SOMEONE'S WATCHING OR LISTENING OR HEARS ABOUT THIS LATER AND SAYS, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE CONSTRUCTED SUCH AND SUCH IN THIS EXAMPLE, PERHAPS A, A REGIONAL SUBURBAN TYPE APARTMENT COMPLEX, THIS DOESN'T INVALIDATE IN ANY WAY, UH, THE PRESENCE OF THAT AS IT SITS TODAY BECAUSE IT WILL PREDATE THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT. SO I KNOW WE'VE GIVEN A LOT OF DIFFERENT PIECES OF INFORMATION, SO I'LL PAUSE FOR A MINUTE AND, UM, SEE IF THAT MAYBE HELPED WITH THE QUESTION, COMMISSIONER JAMES AGAIN. UM, SO I'M GONNA HOLD OFF A LITTLE MORE COMMENTING UNTIL I SEE THE HIGH, THE HIGHER USE, UM, BECAUSE I WANT TO SEE WHERE THAT IS LIMITED TO. OKAY. UM, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO SEE A, A SITUATION IN WHICH WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF SPACE FOR HIGH INTENSITY, UM, SPACES TO PUT PEOPLE. WE HAVE SUCH A DEMAND OF PEOPLE MOVING HERE. I HAVE A WORRY ABOUT THAT. VERY VALID. AND WE CAN CERTAINLY FLIP BACK TO THIS AS WELL, UM, AS WE GET THROUGH THE CONVERSATION IF WE NEED TO. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER STEGEL. JUST AN OBSERVATION THAT OUT OF THE EIGHT CELLS HERE, THE EIGHT PICTURES, UM, THERE'S ONLY ONE WITH CARS. AND SO IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THESE WILL THEN BE RECOMMENDED FOR VARIOUS LOCALES. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WOULD NEED TO BE STREET PARKING ALLEYS, SO ON AND SO FORTH. UM, JUST TO ADDRESS THAT CONCERN, UH, OF, OF CARS AND PARKING, HOW DO WE APPROACH THAT IN NEIGHBORHOODS SUCH AS, UH, AS YOU'RE DESCRIBING HERE? GO AHEAD, MARSH. CERTAINLY TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOODS ARE THE KINDS OF PLACES THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO, UM, BREAK UP THE LANDSCAPE THROUGH MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF SURFACE PARKING. BROADLY SPEAKING, WE WOULD SUGGEST IN TRADITIONAL MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT, UH, PARKING IS EITHER DONE ON THE STREET OR BEHIND THE BUILDING, THUS EFFECTIVELY HIDDEN IF IT'S NOT ON THE STREET FROM, UH, THE STREET SCAPE. UH, TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOODS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PLACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE PUT FIRST, AND SO CARS WHILE NECESSARY ARE, UM, SUBORDINATE TO THE EXPERIENCE OF THE HUMANS WHO INHABIT THAT PLACE. SO BR BROADLY SPEAKING, PARKING IS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE OUT AND ABOUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON THEIR FEET EXPERIENCING THE PLACE ARE, UM, UH, SO THE, THE PARKING SHOULDN'T MAKE THE EXPERIENCE FOR THOSE PEOPLE LESS PLEASANT. THANK YOU. UH, A FOLLOW UP TO THAT, I'LL ALSO ADD THAT IT'S NOT, UH, I'M SORRY, I I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO REMOVE LIKE GARAGES AND DRIVEWAYS AND STUFF. UM, SO IT'S JUST COMMERCIAL USES ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE PARKING LOTS, IS THE POINT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE. WELL, NOT, NOT INTENDED JUST FOR CLARITY'S SAKE, NOT INTENDED TO HAVE MAJOR FRONT, UH, OF BUILDING SURFACE LOCK. RIGHT? I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THERE HAS TO BE P PARKING FOR ANY SORT OF COMMERCIAL USE OR FOR EVERY USE, BUT WE WANT TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT HOW IT'S PLACED. UH, FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, COMMISSIONER STEGEL. AND THAT IS, UM, MY IMPRESSION, ONLY IMPRESSION IS THAT ADUS MAY PRESENT A SPECIAL KIND OF CHALLENGE AS TO NUMBER OF, UH, SPOTS, PARKING SPOTS ALLOWED OFF STREET OR ON THE PROPERTY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. COULD YOU ADDRESS JUST, IS THERE A SPECIAL CHALLENGE WITH ADUS? I I MIGHT HAVE, I MIGHT HAVE NOT HEARD THE VERY TAIL END OF THAT QUESTION, BUT I DID EXTRAPOLATE THAT YOU ARE WANTING TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HOW PARKING MIGHT BE HANDLED FOR ADUS. UM, CORRECT. I DO WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT SOMETHING THAT AJ SAID EARLIER, WHICH IS THAT WE ARE NOT DICTATING, UH, YOUR BUILDING REGULATIONS OR SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN A AS STATED, THIS IS A FRAMEWORK, UH, THAT WOULD HOPEFULLY HELP YOU AMEND AND ADAPT THOSE THINGS OVER TIME BASED ON THE INTENT AND DIRECTION OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. UM, YOU KNOW, BROADLY SPEAKING, ADUS DON'T PRODUCE NEARLY AS MUCH PARKING AS MANY FOLKS, UM, ARE, UH, PRESUMED THAT THEY NEED, UH, PEOPLE WHO MOVE INTO ADUS ARE USUALLY, UH, [00:35:01] LESS PARKED THAN PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSES. SO, UM, AS LONG AS THEY'RE, IF USUALLY A STREET PARKING IS MADE AVAILABLE, UM, ALL PARKING NEEDS FOR ADUS ARE, ARE MET AND, UH, NOT, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T OVERCROWD NEIGHBORHOODS. UM, NOT TO MENTION IN MUCH OF THE AREA THAT WE HAVE TAGGED AS TRADITIONAL MIXED USE, UM, THERE'S ALREADY DEVELOPMENT ON THE GROUND, RIGHT? SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT ADUS THEMSELVES ARE NOT GOING TO COME IN AND WASH OVER YOUR CITY. UH, EVEN IF THEY WERE ALLOWED VERY, VERY BROADLY, THEY'RE NOT GONNA WASH OVER THE CITY AND EVERY HOUSE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD IS GONNA GET AN A D U. SO YOU WON'T GET THAT HIGH INTENSITY NEED OF NEW PARKING IN ANY ONE PLACE. IT'S SPREAD OUT EVENLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LARGE AREA THAT ALLOWS IT IN THE PARTS OF TOWN WHERE TRADITIONAL MIXED USE WOULD BE ALLOWED. AND THERE'S GREENFIELD DEVELOPMENT LAND. IT CERTAINLY DOES MAKE SENSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO SEE DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES IN WHERE THERE WILL BE A HIGHER INTENTIONALITY OF ADUS COMING ALONG WITH PERHAPS SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSES, THAT THINGS LIKE POCKET PARKING IS INCLUDED IN NEIGHBORHOODS, AND THAT'S QUITE COMMON FOR MOST DEVELOPERS THESE DAYS THAT ARE DOING ADUS IN A, IN A MEANINGFUL WAY AS PART OF THEIR PROPERTIES. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS? OKAY. UH, THIS IS CHAIRMAN GUERRA. UM, I, I, I DO SUPPORT, YES, ALL, ALL EIGHT OF THESE, UH, THAT ARE LISTED. UM, I, I DO HAVE A QUESTION. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL TYPES OF BUILDINGS WE'D LIKE TO SEE THERE. UH, WE'RE NOT QUITE COVERING THINGS LIKE LOT SIZES AND SUCH, BECAUSE THAT SHOULD BE DIFFERENT EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE SINGLE FAMILY IN BOTH THAT SHOULD BE DIFFERENT BETWEEN THIS AND LET'S SAY THE RULE. BUT, UH, THE TYPE OF BUILDING I DO SUPPORT, UH, ALL, ALL EIGHT OF THESE IN THIS AREA. AND YES, JUST, JUST TO, UM, ENDORSE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, YOU ARE CORRECT, THAT WOULD BE, UM, SOMETHING WHEN YOU DO YOUR CODE THAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND LETTING THE CONTEXT DRIVE THE DIMENSIONS THAT ARE SETTLED ON DRIVE THE, THE PARKING LOCATIONS AND THOSE THINGS. SO YOU ARE CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON, THANK YOU. THIS ONE. OKAY. IT LOOKS LIKE THAT IS IT FOR THIS ITEM. OKAY. THANK YOU. WE'LL MOVE ON. OKAY. SO THE NEXT ONE IS URBAN VILLAGE. SO THIS WILL BE MUCH MORE INTENSE, BUT IT STILL HAS SOME RESIDENTIAL COMPONENTS TO IT. UM, THIS WILL BE CLOSER TO THE CENTER, TO THE, OF THE CITY. IT'LL BE A CENTER OF ACTIVITY. IT'LL HAVE ACTIVE STREETS AND A FOCUS ON PEOPLE WALKING AND BICYCLING IN THIS AREA. I'M SORRY, CYCLING. THERE YOU GO. UM, SO THESE WILL BE SMALLER DEVELOPMENTS. WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE AN, A LARGER AREA, A LARGER GREENFIELD AREA. THESE ARE GOING TO BE PARCELS HERE AND THERE. UM, STREETS WILL BE NARROW. THIS WILL HAVE SREE PARKING. THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING HERE WILL WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET AROUND WITHIN THE VILLAGE, UM, BY FOOT SO THAT THEY CAN BE ABLE TO GET TO THE MIX OF USES. SO GENERALLY THESE DO NOT INCLUDE ONE SINGLE USE. SO WE'RE KIND OF THINKING THE DOMAIN. SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A MIX OF USES. THEY'RE NOT ONE SINGLE USE, THERE'S NOT JUST GONNA BE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, OR LET'S SAY THAT FAMILY DOLLAR THAT ALWAYS JUST POPS UP. THERE'S GOING TO BE NO FEE OF PARKING. EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE ENCLOSED, GARAGE PARKING TYPE OF PARKING. UM, AND IT'S SOMEWHERE THAT PEOPLE CAN LIVE, WORK AND PLAY ALL IN ONE AREA. GENERALLY, SORRY, BEFORE WE FINISH OFF, GENERALLY THESE ARE CLOSER TO THE CENTER TOWN, SO THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH ALL ALONG 35. SOME PEOPLE DID, UM, IN THE ENGAGEMENT PROCESS HAVE POINTED OUT SOME AREAS THAT THEY THINK WOULD BE GOOD AREAS FOR URBAN VILLAGE. UM, THESE ARE JUST THE LARGER PARCELS THAT ARE UNDEVELOPED THAT WE SEE THAT ARE POTENTIAL SITES FOR THIS. OKAY. SO LET ME TALK EVERYBODY THROUGH THESE NOW. BASICALLY WHAT YOU'LL NOTICE ON THE RESIDENTIAL, UM, TYPOLOGIES, TOWNHOUSE, SMALL PLEX, LIVE WORK, UM, EXCUSE ME, SMALL TOWNHOUSE AND SMALL PLEX, WE'RE BASICALLY MOVING UP TO THE HIGHER INTENSITY OF RESIDENTIAL TYPOLOGIES. SO THIS IS A MORE INTENSE PLACE THAN TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, LIVE WORK FEW OVER AND MANY OVER ARE ALL, UM, MIXED USE TYPOLOGIES. SO, UH, LIVE WORK AS WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED, GENERALLY ONE USE OVER, UH, ONE RESIDENTIAL USE OVER AN OFFICE OR RETAIL SPACE. BELOW FEW OVER IS SIMPLY THE NEXT INCREMENT UP FROM THAT, WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE A NUMBER OF UNITS ABOVE A NUMBER OF UNITS. UH, THREE TO FIVE OF EACH IS PRETTY COMMON, AND THEN MANY OVER IS THE MOST INTENSE, UH, MIXED USE TYPOLOGY. NOW, UH, TO COMMISSIONER JAMES'S QUESTION EARLIER ABOUT, UM, INTENSITY OF RESIDENTIAL LIKE APARTMENTS, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT SUBURBAN STYLE APARTMENTS ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS PLACE TYPE EITHER, EVEN THOUGH THIS WOULD BE ONE OF THE MOST [00:40:01] INTENSE PLACE TYPES. AND WHY IS THAT? IT'S BECAUSE SUBURBAN STYLE APARTMENTS THOUGH, THEY ALLOW FOR HIGH INTENSITY, UH, AND THUS, UH, LOWER COST, UH, RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE THEY TEND TO BE SMALLER AND MORE COMPACT. THEY ALSO COME WITH VERY LARGE PARKING LOTS, AND THEY SEPARATE THAT USE THE RESIDENTIAL USE BY VIRTUE OF THE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT PATTERN THAT YOU GET WITH SUBURBAN STYLE APARTMENTS. THEY SEPARATE THE, THAT USE FROM THE OTHER USES THAT WOULD BE NEARBY. YOU STILL HAVE TO HOP IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE OUT OF YOUR APARTMENT COMPLEX TO GET TO THE SMALL RESTAURANT THAT'S ON A PAD SITE, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN A QUARTER OF A MILE AWAY. AND THAT IS SIMPLY BECAUSE THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN ITSELF DOESN'T JIVE WITH A WALKABLE PLACE. SO INSTEAD, THE WAY THAT YOU GET INTENSE APARTMENTS HERE IS BEING OVER THE TOP OF ANOTHER USE, GENERALLY RETAIL OR OFFICE IN AN URBAN FORM. SO WHAT YOU SEE HERE, FOR EXAMPLE, IS THREE STORIES OF APARTMENTS ABOVE A SINGLE STORY OF, UM, OF, IN THIS CASE RETAIL. SO WE ARE, WE'RE STILL GETTING AT THAT NEED FOR THE HIGHER INTENSITY COMMERCIAL, UH, EXCUSE ME, HIGHER INTENSITY RESIDENTIAL WITHOUT CREATING A DEVELOPMENT PATTERN WHICH BREAKS UP THE URBAN FABRIC OF THE PLACE. UM, SO, UH, JUST TO CONTINUE ON WITH THE NON-RESIDENTIAL, UM, TYPOLOGIES, YOU SEE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE AND REGIONAL SCALE. SO STILL LOW, LOWER, UM, INTENSITY EXCLUSIVELY COMMERCIAL TYPOLOGIES WOULD BE ALLOWED AS WELL AS THE REGIONAL SCALE, WHICH ARE DESIGNED TO DRAW PEOPLE IN FROM, FROM ELSEWHERE. SO THESE ARE THE, THE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES CURRENTLY ASSOCIATED WITH URBAN VILLAGE. OKAY. ANY THOUGHTS, UM, CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS ON THESE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES? GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER JAMES. THERE YOU GO. UH, YES, COMMISSIONER JAMES AGAIN. YEAH, AND I, I WANNA, I WANNA ECHO THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT THE SUBURBAN STYLE APARTMENT AS MUCH AS IT IS ABOUT HAVING AVAILABLE SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO MOVE INTO A GROWING COMMUNITY. LIKE I AM LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IN TRADITIONAL MIXED USE AND URBAN VILLAGE AND NOTICING JUST HOW SMALL THIS IS, JUST HOW ISOLATED FROM MUCH OF WHERE FOLKS LIVE IN KYLE IS, AND ALSO NOT INCLUDING PLACES LIKE THE BRICK AND MORTAR DISTRICT, WHICH WE NEED TO MAKE SURE HAS THIS KIND OF SUPPORT IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT SUCCEED IN THE LONG TERM. LIKE IF WE'RE GONNA PLAN FOR SUCCESS, WE HAVE TO HAVE SIMILAR USES. I THINK THAT WE CAN ALL AGREE ON THAT, UM, AROUND THOSE SPACES, BUT THOSE, THIS SELECTION DOESN'T INCLUDE SOME OF THE SPACES THAT WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED AS SPACES WHERE WE'D LIKE HIGHER INTENSITY USES. MARSHALL KARINA, COULD Y'ALL SPEAK TO THE BRICK AND MORTAR FIRST AND MAYBE WE CAN THEN TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER ITEMS. UM, IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP, I'M SORRY, THAT, UM, THAT THAT WOULD BE FITTING OF THE URBAN VILLAGE. UM, I KNOW THAT IT HAS A MIX OF USES, BUT IT DOESN'T, UM, FIT IN THE DESCRIPTION OF THERE'S NO SINGLE USE. SO HAVING THAT LARGE PARKING AREA WOULD NOT FIT INTO THE DESCRIPTION OF URBAN VILLAGE. USUALLY IN URBAN VILLAGE, WE WANT THE NARROW STREETS, WE WANT SMALLER STREETS THAT ARE MORE PEDESTRIAN SKILL, MORE PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY AND ORIENTED, AND NOT HAVE THAT, UM, LARGE PARKING AREAS. I I WOULD ALSO JUST SUGGEST THAT THE, THE SMALL PLEX RESIDENTIAL AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE NON-RESIDENTIAL ARE DOING A, A GREAT DEAL OF HEAVY LIFTING AND THEY PROVIDE FOR THE KIND OF INTENSITY AND THUS DENSITY THAT IS NEEDED FOR THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE COMING INTO KYLE. UM, TO BE, TO FIND A PLACE FOR THEMSELVES EITHER TO WORK OR TO SHOP OR TO LIVE. THOSE ARE, UM, FREQUENTLY NOT BUILT VERY MUCH IN, IN, IN COMMUNITIES. YOU GET THE LOWEST INTENSITY SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSES, AND YOU GET THE HIGHEST INTENSITY, WHICH ARE SUBURBAN STYLE APARTMENTS OR THE MANY OVER MIXED USE THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED. BUT PROVIDING FOR THE CAPACITY TO HAVE THESE IN BETWEEN LEVELS OF INTENSITY IN A MUCH WIDER AREA OF THE CITY ACTUALLY PROVIDES FOR A GREAT DEAL MORE, UM, DWELLING UNITS THROUGHOUT THE CITY THAN CONCENTRATING THE MOST INTENSE USES IN A NUMBER OF PLACES ACROSS THE CITY. SO OUR GENERAL POSITION IS THAT YOU GET A WHOLE LOT OUT OF MANY OF THESE MIDDLE SCALE, THESE MIDDLE INTENSITY, UH, TYPOLOGIES ALLOWED ACROSS A MUCH LARGER PORTION OF THE CITY. I THINK [00:45:01] ALSO THAT, UM, TOUCHES ON TWO OF THE AREAS THAT WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO LOOK AT VERY SPECIFICALLY, WHICH IS TO HELP IMPROVE THE FISCAL PRODUCTIVITY, UM, OF THE LAND AREA WITHIN KYLE ITSELF, WHICH THOSE MISSING MIDDLE TYPES OF HOUSING DO A GREAT JOB OF. THEY, UH, PERFORM VERY WELL. AND THEN ALSO BEING MINDFUL OF THESE CAPACITY, UM, OF UTILITY SERVICES AND THE LIMITATIONS THAT WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT THROUGH WORKING WITH THE STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE, UM, DIFFERENT TYPES OF GENERAL DENSITY OPTIONS, UM, BOTH GET AT PROVIDING MORE RESIDENTIAL CHOICE, UM, THEREFORE AFFORDABILITY LEVELS AND MORE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE SEEKING HOUSING, BUT ALSO DOESN'T PUSH THE ENVELOPE TO DRASTICALLY AS IT RELATES TO THOSE TWO TOPICS THAT WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO FOCUS ON SPECIFICALLY THE THE FISCAL BOTTOM LINE AND THE CAPACITY ISSUES. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS, BUT THAT, THAT, THAT'S KIND OF AN OUTLINE OF OUR THINKING BEHIND THIS, I THINK AT THE TIME. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE HAVE COMMENTS THEY'D LIKE TO? YES. UH, VICE CHAIR CHASE. VICE CHAIR CHASE. UM, SO I, IS IT Y'ALL'S RECOMMENDATION THAT WE'RE, WE'RE GETTING RID OF SUBURBAN APARTMENTS? NO, WE JUST HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THAT PLACE TYPE YET. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I'LL RESERVE MY CONVERSATION YET. WE'RE JUST GONNA RECOMMEND THAT YOU'D BE DISCERNING ABOUT IT GIVEN THOSE LIMITATIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, UH, THIS IS CHAIRMAN GUERRA. UH, UM, AGAIN, I THINK JUST LIKE THE LAST ONE, I THINK YOU GUYS HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THIS ONE. I AGREE WITH ALL OF THESE, UH, UH, THAT ARE LISTED HERE. AND I ALSO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS THE OPTION FOR, WELL, I MEAN ALL OF THESE SHOULD BE DENSE, BUT IF YOU WANT, UM, MORE DENSITY, THE MANY OVER SHOULD BE THE OPTION TO GO WITH. I THINK THAT IS A, A BETTER OPTION THAN JUST A PURE, YOU KNOW, ONLY APARTMENT COMPLEX. I THINK FOR THIS LOCATION, UH, THESE ARE THE CORRECT CHOICES. ANYONE ELSE HAVE COMMENTS? THANK YOU ALL FOR THE FEEDBACK. OKAY, I THINK THAT IS IT FOR THIS ONE. OKAY. LET'S MOVE ON TO THE NEXT. OKAY, SO THIS ONE IS REGIONAL COMMERCIAL. THIS ONE IS GOING TO BE MO MORE AUTO ORIENTED TRAFFIC. SO IT IS ALL OF 35, PRETTY MUCH WHATEVER IS NOT 35, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY LISTED AS SOMETHING MORE INTENSE OR THE URBAN VILLAGE. UM, AND THEN THIS IS GOING TO BE NEAR, UM, HIGH TRAFFIC INTERSECTIONS. SO WE HAVE NODE THROUGHOUT THAT ARE GOING TO BE TWO MAJOR INTERSECTIONS OR TWO LARGER ROADS THAT WILL BE ATTRACTING MORE TRAFFIC. UM, FOR THE AREAS THAT ARE AWAY FROM 35, UM, THIS WOULD INCLUDE THE RESTAURANTS, RETAIL, GAS STATION OFFICES. AND THIS IS ALSO WHERE WE'RE INCLUDING THE HIGHER INTENSITY, UM, RESIDENTIAL USES SUCH AS APARTMENTS. AND, UM, TYPICALLY THIS IS GOING TO BE PULLING IN TRAFFIC FROM THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS. SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE WHERE IT'S JUST THE DRY CLEANER AND THE COFFEE SHOP, BUT IT'S MORE OF LIKE THAT TARGET AND THAT WALMART THAT'S GOING TO BE ATTRACTING TRAFFIC FROM THE NEIGHBORING AREAS. UM, AND THESE WERE, UM, ALSO MATCHING WHATEVER THE, THE CITIZENS AND COUNCIL AND STAFF HAS PROVIDED AND FEEDBACK. UM, THE AREAS THAT WE THINK, UM, ARE GOING TO BE NEEDING THIS TYPE OF OF SERVICES. UM, AS I MENTIONED FURTHER DOWN ON THE SOUTHEAST SIDE, THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL OF NODE, UM, ONCE WILL SHARES THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP DRAFT THAT WE HAVE. YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND SEE THAT, BUT JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE IS ADDITIONAL, AN ADDITIONAL NODE RIGHT THERE ON THAT INTERSECTION. OKAY. AND, UM, REGIONAL COMMERCIAL, UH, BROADLY CONTAINS FOUR BUILDING TYPOLOGIES APARTMENTS. SO STANDALONE, PURELY RESIDENTIAL HIGH INTENSITY APARTMENTS, THE MANY OVER PLACE TYPE AS WE'VE DISCUSSED UP TO THIS POINT. AND THEN NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE AND REGIONAL SCALE, UH, NON-RESIDENTIAL. SO REGIONAL SCALE WOULD BE, UM, NON-RESIDENTIAL PLACES WHICH ARE INTENDED TO DRAW PEOPLE FROM FARTHER AWAY. I, I ALSO, UM, WANT TO SUGGEST THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER AS WE LOOK AT THE, UM, THE ACTUAL PLACE TYPES ON A MAP THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY SOLID LINE ON A MAP TO INDICATE A CLEAR DIVISION FROM ONE TYPE OF PLACE TO ANOTHER. AND THESE THINGS WILL BLEED INTO AND OUT OF EACH OTHER. WHAT WE'RE DOING IS TRYING TO SPECIFY THE LOGICAL CENTERS OF, UH, VARIOUS TYPES OF PLACES. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, [00:50:01] BRICK AND MORTAR GOT MENTIONED EARLIER. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE REGIONAL PLACE TYPE AT THE INTERSECTION, BUT THE FACT THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME DEVELOPMENT IN THE BRICK AND MORTAR AREA, WHICH IS JUST OUTSIDE OF THAT REGIONAL COMMERCIAL PLACE TYPE DOESN'T MAKE IT WRONG. AND OF COURSE, AS WE STATED BEFORE, THAT'S ALREADY AN ENTITLED PROJECT, SO NOTHING THAT WE'RE DOING HERE WOULD INVALIDATE ANY OF THAT. I'LL TURN IT OVER TO AJ FOR QUESTIONS. OKAY, GREAT. UM, SO FIRST ANY THOUGHTS OR CONCERNS ABOUT THE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES IN THIS CATEGORY? UH, THIS IS CHAIRMAN GUERRA. UM, CAN YOU ALL SPEAK SOME MORE TO WHAT REGIONAL SCALE IS LIKE? LIKE, LIKE DOES THAT INCLUDE THE BIG BOX STORES? UH, UH, UM, WHAT REALLY WOULD THAT BE? YEAH, BROADLY SPEAKING, UM, IT COULD INCLUDE BIG BOX STORES. I MEAN, BRO, WE ARE, AND YOU KNOW, AS THE, THE PLANNING WORLD HAS GROWN AND ADJUSTED OVER THE PAST DECADE OR SO, YOU KNOW, BROADLY SPEAKING, NOBODY REALLY SUGGESTS THAT IT IS HEALTHY FOR A CITY AND FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR A CITY TO BUILD, UM, A BIG BOX STORE IN A SEA OF PARKING. BUT THOSE TYPES OF SHOPPING EXPERIENCES ARE NECESSARY AND THEY CAN BE DESIGNED IN A WAY THAT IS CONDUCIVE TO THE FISCAL PRODUCTIVITY OF YOUR CITY AND THE EXPERIENCE OF, UM, THE FOLKS WHO INHABIT THOSE SPACES WHO USE THOSE SPACES. SO YES, REGIONAL COMMERCIAL WOULD CERTAINLY INCLUDE THINGS LIKE MAJOR GROCERY STORES AND MAJOR BIG BOX STORES. AND THEN ULTIMATELY YOUR, UM, CODE UPDATES, ET CETERA WOULD BE AIMING TO GET AT ENSURING THAT THOSE PLACES ARE DESIGNED AND BUILT IN A WAY, UH, THAT IS, IS CONDUCIVE TO THOSE GOALS THAT I JUST MENTIONED. I DO WANT TO, UM, GO OFF OF WHAT MARSHA JUST SAID, AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE A, A ONE STOP SHOP TYPE OF THING WHERE LIKE YOU'RE, YOU CAN BE ABLE TO GO SHOPPING FOR CLOTHES AND THEN GET SOME GROCERIES AND GET SOME DINNER AND MAYBE A DRINK ALL IN THE ONE IN THE SAME PLACE. UM, SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE GONNA GO TO ONE THING AND GET IN YOUR CAR AND THEN DRIVE OVER TO THE NEXT THING. UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN GO TO ONE DESTINATION AND HAVE AN EXPERIENCE THERE AND THEN GO HOME. OKAY, THANK YOU. UH, YES, I DO SUPPORT THESE ITEMS IN THE REGIONAL COMMERCIAL AREA. UH, DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS AREA? COMMISSIONER JAMES? YEAH, I HAVE A, I HAVE A QUESTION, COMMISSIONER JAMES AGAIN HERE. UM, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT HOW LIKE THE REGIONAL, THIS REGIONAL COMMERCIAL AREA BEING SPECIFICALLY FOR LIKE A DESTINATION WHERE YOU COME INTO A ONE-STOP THING, BUT THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT WITH URBAN VILLAGE. SO I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN THE TWO OF THOSE TWO YOU ALL. SO, I'M SORRY, I'M GONNA JUMP ON THIS ONE, MARSHALL. UM, UM, URBAN VILLAGE IS SUPPOSED TO BE ON A SMALLER SCALE AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A DESTINATION, UM, MORE OF LIKE AN ACTIVITY CENTER AND REGIONAL COMMERCIAL IS MORE FOR A, FOR YOUR USES AND IT'S NOT MORE OF LIKE ENTERTAINMENT, BUT MORE OF GETTING YOUR NE YOUR NECESSITIES. UM, THE APARTMENTS IN THIS AREA ARE SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT THE USES THE BUSINESSES THAT ARE LOCATED HERE. SO IF YOU HAVE OFFICES, UM, YOU NEED TO HOUSE THESE PEOPLE SOMEWHERE SO YOU'RE NOT EXPECTING THAT EVERYBODY'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO OWN A HOME, BUT APARTMENTS ARE GONNA BE SOMEWHERE THAT THESE PEOPLE MAY LIVE, UM, WHILE THEY'RE WORKING IN THIS AREA. SO IT'S MORE OF SUPPORTING USES WHILE URBAN VILLAGE IS MORE OF THAT LIVE WORK, LIKE EVERYBODY WHO'S LIVING THERE IS GOING TO BE SHOPPING THERE AND IS GOING TO BE EATING THERE. UM, SO IT'S KIND OF ITS OWN LITTLE VILLAGE, BUT ALSO ATTRACTING PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE REGIONAL IS SUPPOSED TO BE ATTRACTING DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS SURROUNDING THAT AREA. I, I'D ALSO, UM, MENTIONED THAT ONE OF THE PROBABLY PRINCIPLE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO IS ABOUT WHO THEIR PRIMARY USER IS ON THE REGIONAL COMMERCIAL. WE ACCEPT THAT THEY WILL BE MORE AUTO CENTRIC PLACES WE WANT TO TRY AND MITIGATE FOR THE AUTOMOBILE IN THESE PLACES, BUT WE ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE MORE AUTOMOBILE ORIENTED PLACES. URBAN VILLAGE, ON THE OTHER HAND, IS INTENDED TO BE A MORE PEDESTRIAN AND WALKABLE PLACE AND, AND PART OF THAT IS REFLECTED IN THE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES THAT ARE ALLOWED THERE BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE SORT OF MIDDLE SCALE RESIDENTIAL USES ALLOWED AND ALSO SOME OF THE LOWER INTENSITY COMMERCIAL USES ALLOWED INSIDE THAT. THE REGIONAL COMMERCIAL IS EFFECTIVELY THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF INTENSITY OF EACH OF YOUR BUILDING TYPOLOGIES. IT ALSO ALLOWS FOR SOME NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE. YOU WOULD PUT THAT SORT OF THING GENERALLY ON THE PERIPHERY WHERE YOU'RE BORDERING UP AGAINST THINGS LIKE THE TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD, A TRADITIONAL MIXED USE PLACE TYPE. BUT, UH, BROADLY SPEAKING, REGIONAL SCALE IS THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF NON-RESIDENTIAL INTENSITY AND MANY OVER IS THE HIGHEST LEVEL INTENSITY OF MIXED USE TYPOLOGY AND APARTMENTS IS THE HIGHEST LEVEL INTENSITY OF RESIDENTIAL. SO I WOULD ARGUE THAT, UH, EFFECTIVELY REGIONAL COMMERCIAL IS ONE OF THE MOST INTENSIVE, UH, PLACE TYPES, PERHAPS THE MOST INTENSIVE PLACE TYPE, UH, BARRING INDUSTRIAL. [00:55:05] THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THIS AREA? ALRIGHT, I THINK THAT'S IT FOR THIS ONE. THE LAST ONE THAT WE HAVE IS INDUSTRIAL. SO I DO WANT TO, UM, GO AHEAD AND DIFFERENTIATE THAT INDUSTRIAL USES ON A LIGHTER SCALE ARE ALLOWED IN THE OTHER, UM, OR THEY USED TO BE ALLOWED, I THINK WE REMOVED THEM, IS THAT RIGHT? MARSHALL? WHAT WE WANT TO MAKE CLEAR IS THAT INDUSTRIAL USES, WHICH JUST TO REMIND EVERYONE USES ARE NOT SOMETHING THAT'S DICTATED BY THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, BUT INDUSTRIAL USES ON A SMALL SCALE, UH, COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE A PERSON WHO, YOU KNOW, FASHIONS, LEATHER WALLETS OR UM, MAKER SPACES, A MAKER SPACE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THOSE SORTS OF THINGS FIT INTO NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE. NON-RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, THEY WOULD FIT INTO REGIONAL SCALE NON-RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS. THE, AND I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANNA STEAL KARINA'S THUNDER, BUT WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT THE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES, THE INDUSTRIAL BUILDING TYPOLOGY IS FAR AND AWAY DIFFERENT FROM THAT. AND, AND WE'LL GET TO THAT HERE IN JUST A SECOND. YEAH, THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THAT MARSHALL. UM, SO THIS IS GOING TO BE THE HIGHER INTENSITY. SO THE LOWER INTENSITY IS SOMETHING THAT WE'LL GO AHEAD AND FIT IN THE OTHER ONES, UM, WHICH LIKE MARK MARSHALL SAID IS MORE OF THE MAKER SPACES, THE LIKE TECH, UM, TECHNOLOGY, UM, TYPE OF USES. BUT THIS IS GOING TO BE MORE OF THE HIGHER INTENSITY OF INDUSTRIAL. SO THIS IS GOING TO BE MAJOR WAREHOUSE DISTRIBUTION CENTERS AND SIMILAR DEVELOPMENTS. THIS IS GOING TO BE AWAY FROM THE COMMUNITY FOCUSED PLACES. UM, AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE, UH, CONCENTRATED. SO WE DO HAVE A LOT OF THE EXISTING INDUSTRIAL ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THEN WE HAVE SOME POTENTIAL INDUSTRIAL ON THE SOUTH SIDE. SO THIS IS KEEPING IN MIND THAT THIS IS MORE OF THE INTENSE USES AND NOT NECESSARILY THE SMALLER INTENSE, THE LESS INTENSE USES. OKAY. AND SO IN INDUSTRIAL WE ALLOW FOR TWO BUILDING TYPOLOGIES, UM, INDUSTRIAL, WHICH WOULD BE THINGS LIKE DISTRIBUTION CENTERS AND LARGE, UH, WAREHOUSE BUILDINGS AND PR PRODUCTION, UM, FACILITIES. UH, WE ALSO SUGGEST ALLOWING FOR LIVE WORK. NOW I WILL GIVE EVERYONE A HEADS UP THAT WE DID RECEIVE SOME, UH, FEEDBACK DURING THE, UM, ENGAGEMENT ACTIVITIES THAT THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION ABOUT THIS AND WHAT WE WANTED. WE STILL BELIEVE THAT WE DIDN'T HEAR FROM EVERYONE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY WANT TO DISALLOW. JUST THAT PEOPLE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF LIVE WORK BEING ALLOWED IN INDUSTRIAL. AND SO I'LL JUST SPEAK TO THAT FOR A MOMENT, WHICH IS THAT IN MANY CASES IT DOES MAKE SENSE FOR SOME HOUSING CAPACITY TO BE ALLOWED ALONGSIDE INDUSTRIAL USES. YOU CAN THINK OF THESE AS THINGS LIKE CARETAKER COTTAGES OR UM, UH, AN INDUSTRIAL BUILDING THAT SOMEONE WORKS OUT OF, UM, ALL THE TIME AND THEY NEED SPACE IN IT SO THAT THEY CAN STAY THERE WHEN THEY NEED TO. THAT'S WHAT LIVE WORK WOULD MEAN IN THE INDUSTRIAL CONTEXT. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BUNCH OF, YOU KNOW, CUTE LITTLE SHOPS ON THE GROUND FLOOR AND APARTMENTS ABOVE IT RIGHT NEXT TO, YOU KNOW, AN INDUSTRIAL WAREHOUSE BECAUSE AS WE'VE SAID THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE THING, CONTEXT IS ABSOLUTELY KEY FOR EACH ONE OF THESE BUILDING TYPOLOGIES. ANY THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE INDUSTRIAL PLACE TYPE? THIS IS WILL ATKINSON, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING. UM, IF THERE COULD BE RELATED TO THE LIVE WORK AND INDUSTRIAL, IF THERE COULD BE MORE, UM, CLEAR EXAMPLES OF THAT, UM, FROM ANY UH, FOLLOW UP, UM, ADJUSTMENTS TO THIS, IF THERE'S ANY, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN HAVE A LIVE WORK UNIT IN A SELF STORAGE FACILITY. IF THERE'S A CARETAKER RESIDENCE IN AN APARTMENT ABOVE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD SLIDE IN THAT, THAT'S A, THAT'S PROBABLY THE, IN MY OPINION, THE MOST OBVIOUS EXAMPLE. BUT UM, THAT'S A YEAH, YEAH. WILL, THAT'S AN ABSOLUTELY PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. I, I GUESS MY CONCERNS ARE IS THAT THAT SPECIFIC CONCEPT THOUGH IN INDUSTRIAL MAY SEEM KIND OF OUTSIDE THE BOX QUITE A WAYS. SO IF IN THE EVENT THAT WE AS A BODY WITH THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AND ALSO CITY COUNCIL ULTIMATELY SAY YES TO THIS, THEY PROB WE JUST NEED TO HAVE MORE EXAMPLES OF, UH, OF SPECIFICITY WHEN IT COMES TO THAT IN, IN IN THE INDUSTRIAL ZONE. WELL KEEP IN MIND UM, THAT, THAT YOUR ORDINANCE WILL DICTATE THE SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED. SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ESTABLISH HERE IS SIMPLY THAT THERE MAY BE, UM, SITUATIONS OR EXAMPLES WHERE THIS [01:00:01] COULD BE APPROPRIATE AND THEN YOUR CODE WILL CALIBRATE SPECIFICALLY WHAT THOSE EXAMPLES ARE. UM, AND WE CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE SOME SUGGESTIONS, BUT THAT WOULD BE THE, THE CONTEXT OUTSIDE THE PLAN ITSELF, BUT WITHIN THE CODE. THANK YOU. UH, YES, VICE CHURCH, UH, VICE CHAIR CHASE, THANKS. YEAH, JUST TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT, I THINK OF, I COULD SEE TWO DIFFERENT EXAMPLES AND MAYBE THAT'S WHERE YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF, OF LIVE WORK. I COULD SEE SOMEBODY OWNING LIKE A BIKE SHOP THAT, YOU KNOW, MAINTAINS MOTORCYCLES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND HAS AN APARTMENT, UM, WITHIN THAT SAME, THAT COULD BE LUMPED INTO INDUSTRIAL, BUT THEN A PSYCHOLOGIST THAT HAS A SMALL OFFICE, YOU KNOW, AND AN APARTMENT. I DON'T THINK YOU WANT THAT PSYCHOLOGIST TYPE OF BUILDING SITTING IN AN INDUSTRIAL AREA AS YOU WOULD WOULDN'T WANT A MOTORCYCLE SHOP WITH A APARTMENT ABOVE IT SITTING IN A SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED NEIGHBORHOOD EITHER. CORRECT. AND THAT'S WHERE YOUR ZONING CODE IS REALLY GOING TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT'S APPROPRIATE THERE. SO I SUSPECT YOUR CODE, I I, I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF THIS IS THE CASE NOW, BUT I SUSPECT IT PROBABLY WOULDN'T ALLOW, UM, THAT TYPE OF PROFESSIONAL OFFICE TYPE OF SETTING IN INDUSTRIAL, UM, NOR MIGHT IT ALLOW THE, THE BIKE SHOP FOR EXAMPLE IN THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, BUT WHAT WE WE'RE HEARING YOU ALL SAY IS THAT YOU'RE DEFINITELY CONCERNED ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT IF THIS IS A FIXTURE IN THE INDUSTRIAL PLACE TYPE, THAT IT IS A LIMITED APPLICATION, UM, AND NOT SOMETHING THAT IS WIDESPREAD AND THEREFORE DIFFICULT TO MONITOR. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? YEAH, THIS IS, I SHARE CHASE. I I I WOULD SAY THAT CUZ I, YEAH, IT'S, UM, OKAY, IT'S TWO COMPLETELY TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT EXAMPLES, BUT WITH THE SAME TITLE OF LIVE WORK, RIGHT? SO IT'S, IT'S MAYBE DIFFERENTIATING WHAT'S LIVE WORK INDUSTRIAL, WHAT'S LIVE WORK NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, YOU KNOW, IF, OKAY, SO MAYBE IT'S EVEN JUST THE PHRASEOLOGY THAT'S USED WITHIN THE INDUSTRIAL PLACE TYPE THAT IS SOMETHING MAYBE WE COULD TALK ABOUT AS A CATEGORY NAME THAT'S PERHAPS MORE DESCRIPTIVE. MM-HMM. . OKAY. LET US THINK ON THAT A LITTLE BIT. I THINK THOSE ARE GOOD COMMENTS. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE HAVE COMMENTS ON THIS? OKAY, UH, THIS IS CHAIRMAN GUERRA. UM, I, I, I DO AGREE WITH BOTH OF THESE AND, AND I THINK YES, AS LONG AS WE DO CLARIFY THAT IT IS LIVE WORK INDUSTRIAL SPECIFIC, THEN ABSOLUTELY, I I I, I DO AGREE THAT IT, THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE HERE IN THIS AREA. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY. I THINK THAT'S IT FOR THIS ONE. OKAY, GREAT. ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, THAT TAKES US TO THE, THE END OF THE DIFFERENT PLACE TYPES THAT WE WANTED TO DISCUSS WITH YOU ALL. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE A FEW, UM, DIRECT PIECES OF FEEDBACK, UM, TO CONSIDER, WHICH I THINK IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR. SO THANK YOU FOR TALKING THROUGH EACH OF THOSE WITH US. UM, SO FIRST OF ALL, UM, LET ME JUST GO BACK AND, AND LOOK AT THIS AT A HIGH LEVEL. ARE THERE ANY OTHER, FIRST OF ALL, ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS THAT ANYONE WANTS TO SHARE THAT, THAT PERHAPS CAME TO THEM AFTER WE HAD MOVED ON FROM ANY OF THE EARLIER PLACE TYPES? I HAD A PERHAPS ODD ONES STUCK IN THE, SAY YOUR NAME. OH, COMMISSIONER STEGEL. THANK YOU. UM, AN ODD THOUGHT WHEN WE WERE GOING THROUGH THESE OF RECAPITULATING SOMETHING IN THE 20TH CENTURY, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE AVOIDING THAT ALTOGETHER, BUT IS THERE A PARTICULAR TENSION IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT AND URBAN PLANNING BETWEEN WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING AS RURAL AND THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT THERE? AND THEN WHAT IS REALLY, WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT IN INFILL WITH THE URBAN VILLAGE REGIONAL COMMERCIAL, IS THERE ANY KIND OF TENSION BETWEEN THOSE TWO AREAS THAT HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED, NOT JUST CONCEPTUALLY, BUT PRACTICALLY SO THAT WE DON'T CREATE NEW HISTORICAL PROBLEMS? BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT VERY, YOU'VE GOT SPACE THAT IS GONNA BE SINGLE FAMILY ON LARGER LOTS PROBABLY IN THE RURAL AREA THERE, VERY LARGE LOTS COMPARED TO WHAT ARE BEING BUILT RIGHT NOW. UM, IS THERE GONNA BE ANY TENSION BETWEEN THAT AND THIS MORE URBANIZED, ENVE UH, DEVELOPMENT IN YOUR, IN YOUR VIEW, IS THERE ANYTHING WE NEED TO BE HEADS UP ABOUT OTHER THAN TRAFFIC? I, I THINK, [01:05:01] UM, AND I'LL, I'LL DEFINITELY ASK MARSHALL AND KARINA TO WEIGH IN ON THIS AS WELL, IF THEY HAVE THOUGHTS TO SHARE, BUT I DO THINK THE, UM, THE MOST KIND OF OBVIOUS HIGH LEVEL TENSION THAT USUALLY COMES UP IN THESE DISCUSSIONS IS JUST THE, THE PLACEMENT AND THE TRANSITION BETWEEN THESE TYPES. AND I THINK, UM, MARSHALL'S ANALOGY EARLIER WAS, WAS SPOT ON, WHICH IS THAT THESE ARE REALLY INTENDED TO BE PLACED CAREFULLY. AND SO THERE ARE A LOT, UM, TO KARINA'S POINTS THROUGHOUT THE PRESENTATION, THERE WERE A LOT OF PHYSICAL CUES AND UH, UM, TOPOGRAPHICAL CUES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT THAT INFLUENCED WHERE A LOT OF THESE PLACE TYPES WENT. UM, ANOTHER BIG INFLUENCE IN THEM WAS WHAT'S ALREADY BUILT IN ON THE GROUND AND WHAT THERE IS A CAPACITY FOR. AND SO IN ADDITION TO LOOKING AT ALL OF THOSE THINGS TO AVOID CREATING, UH, A LEVEL OF TENSION THAT IS PROBLEMATIC, THE ABILITY FOR THEM TO BE PLACED APPROPRIATELY WHERE THEY CAN IN FACT BLEED INTO ONE ANOTHER AT THE EDGES AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY HARD TO FIND, UM, ISLANDS, UM, THAT DON'T FUNCTION TOGETHER. I, I THINK IS PROBABLY THE, THE BIGGEST CONCERN THAT YOU SEE, UH, IN TERMS OF A TENSION BETWEEN THOSE, THOSE TYPES OF TYPOLOGIES AND, UH, AND PLACE TYPES. I DON'T KNOW IF, UH, MARSHALL ORNA, EITHER ONE HAS ANY THOUGHTS TO ADD TO THAT. I, I THINK IT'S, I THINK THAT YOU'LL GENERALLY NOTICE THAT THE MOST INTENSE PLACE TYPES ARE BUFFERED BY THE SECOND LARGEST PLACE TYPE, WHICH IS TRADITIONAL MIXED USE. AND TRADITIONAL MIXED USE IS INTENDED TO BE A VERY WIDE SPECTRUM OF PLACES. THOSE CAN BE SLIGHTLY MORE INTENSE AS THEY APPROACH MORE INTENSE PLACES, AND THEY WILL NATURALLY BE LESS INTENSE AS YOU APPROACH LESS INTENSE PLACES. SO YOU WILL TEND TO FIND THAT THE DEVELOPMENT THAT HAPPENS ON THE FRINGE BETWEEN TRADITIONAL MIXED USE AND RURAL IS LESS INTENSE THAN THE DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU FIND ON THE TRANSITION, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM TRADITIONAL MIXED USE TO, UM, TO URBAN VILLAGE OR REGIONAL COMMERCIAL FOR THAT EXAM, FOR, FOR THAT MATTER. SO I THINK THAT THAT GENERALLY, UM, UH, KEEPS, KEEPS US FROM FINDING OURSELVES IN THIS KIND OF, UM, AWFUL JUXTAPOSITION WHERE YOU HAVE THE MOST INTENSE USES DIRECTLY NEXT, UH, TO THE, THE, THE LEAST INTENSE PLACES. I, I HOPE THAT THAT GETS A LITTLE BIT AT WHAT YOU WERE ASKING. YEAH. I, IT REALLY, REALLY DOESN'T, IT HELPS IT ALL HANG TOGETHER. BIG PICTURE. YEAH. I, I WANTED TO SAY IT'S ALL CONTEXT SENSITIVE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE KEEP BRINGING UP. UM, SO WE ARE, IT'S AL ALSO GOING TO INCLUDE THE CODE. SO IF YOU HAVE YOUR BUFFER ZONES AND BUFFER AREAS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO NEED BE BETWEEN DIFFERENT USES, THAT'S STILL GOING TO APPLY. SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO EXPECT MORE INTENSE USES NEXT TO THE LESSER INTENSE USES. SO THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE TO KEEP IN MIND. SURE. AND ALSO JUST ADD BRIEFLY, NOT TO TO BELABOR THE POINT, BUT ONE OF THE, THE BEAUTIES OF USING PLACE TYPES AS OPPOSED TO THE MORE TRADITIONAL AND MORE RIGID FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORIES THAT WE REALLY LIKE, UM, ESPECIALLY AS PEOPLE THAT HAVE WORKED IN CITIES AND WORKED FOR CITIES AND HAVE HAD TO ADMINISTER THESE TYPES OF PLANS, IS THAT IT ALLOWS, UM, JUDGMENT AS WELL FOR YOU. IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO US THAT IF WE DO OUR JOB WELL, WE'VE GIVEN YOU A PLAN THAT PROVIDES YOU WITH VISION AND DIRECTION AND KIND OF THE, THE GUIDEPOSTS WITHIN WHICH TO WORK, BUT IT'S NOT OVERLY PRESCRIPTIVE. SO THAT YOU ARE ALSO ABLE AS A BODY AND YOUR CITY COUNCIL AND WORKING WITH YOUR STAFF, UM, WHO ARE THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS, YOU ARE ALSO ABLE TO, UM, TO CATER AND TAILOR THINGS AS IT WORKS BECAUSE WE CAN'T POSSIBLY ANTICIPATE EVERY SINGLE, UM, PROPOSAL OR IDEA THAT MIGHT COME BEFORE YOU. SO THAT'S ALSO PART OF THE BEAUTY OF USING THE PLACE TYPES IS IT DOES ALLOW YOU, UM, SOME LEVEL OF DISCERNMENT AND IN WAYS TO MOLD THAT, UH, WHEN YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR REQUEST, UM, AND YOU'RE ABLE TO USE SOME JUDGMENT, UM, AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT FITS THAT CONTEXT. SO HOPEFULLY SOME OF THOSE EXPLANATIONS HELP GET AT YOUR QUESTION. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE? UH, YES, COMMISSIONER JAMES. HELLO, COMMISSIONER JAMES AGAIN FOR THE RECORD. UM, I GUESS THE ONE THING I I COME AT WITH THE END OF ALL OF THIS IS LIKE, UM, I LOOK AT, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT HOW TRADITIONAL MIXED USE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A WIDELY APPLIED THING, BUT I DEFINITELY AM CURIOUS, UM, JUST AS I'M THINKING ABOUT IN PROCESSING THIS, JUST HOW COHESIVE THIS IS THROUGHOUT SUCH A WIDE SWATH OF KYLE. LIKE IF WE LOOK AT HOW MUCH OF THAT MAP WAS TRADI, TRADITIONAL [01:10:01] MIXED USE, THOSE IN OUR CURRENT, UM, OUR CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN HAVE MANY, THERE'S I THINK THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT, UM, THINGS THAT WE CALL THEM NOW. SO US KIND OF PULLING THOSE TOGETHER IS SOMETHING I'M DEFINITELY CONCERNED ABOUT, ESPECIALLY AS PART OF IT INCLUDES LIKE PLUM CREEK, PART OF IT INCLUDES DOWNTOWN KYLE. I KNOW IT'S A LANDMINE, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE DEFINITELY WANT TO HAVE TO CONSIDER AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE THINGS. ARE, ARE THOSE SPECIFIC SPACES SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO HAVE THE SAME OVERALL FORM THOUGHT AROUND AS A, AS A, AS A BOARD, RIGHT? UH, THIS IS COMMI, THIS IS, UH, CHAIRMAN GAL. UH, UM, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YES, WE, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS ACTUALLY A VERY LARGE CHUNK OF THE CITY IN ONE FAILED SWOOP, BUT I BELIEVE THE THINGS THAT WERE TALKED ABOUT, THE BUILDING TYPES BETWEEN SINGLE FAMILY TWO, THE, YOU KNOW, THE MANY OVER TO, I THINK IT DID COVER THOSE. NOT EVERY ONE OF THOSE IS APPLICABLE ON EVERY SINGLE STREET THERE, BUT I THINK THAT EACH OF THEM ARE REPRESENTED IN THOSE BUILDING TYPES. THAT'S JUST MY PERSPECTIVE. UM, ANYONE ELSE? IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO BRING UP BEFORE WE END? OKAY. I BELIEVE THAT IS ALL FROM OUR END. OKAY. UM, IF I COULD JUST, UH, VERY QUICKLY, I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO, UM, WHAT WE HEARD EARLIER IN SOME OF THE DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD RELATED TO APARTMENTS, UM, AND THE BRICK AND MORTAR DISTRICT. SO, UH, WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE RECAP AND THAT WE CAPTURE EXACTLY, UM, ACCURATELY, UM, THE INTENTIONALITY BEHIND THE COMMENTS. AND SO IT SOUNDED LIKE, UM, THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE CATEGORIZATION OF THOSE AREAS. UM, SO PERHAPS WE COULD JUST TOUCH ON THAT FOR A MOMENT. UM, AND, AND MARSHALL, KARINA, I'LL ASK YOU TO TALK ABOUT WHAT, NUMBER ONE, WHAT THAT AREA IS DESIGNATED AS NOW AS A PROPOSAL, AND THEN PERHAPS WE COULD REEXAMINE, UM, THAT TO SOME EXTENT TO, UH, ADDRESS THE COMMISSIONER'S CONCERNS. SO I'LL, I'LL MOVE US BACK OVER TO REGIONAL COMMERCIAL. UM, LET ME GET US OVER THERE ONE SECOND. SO ON THE NORTH SIDE OF PLUMB CREEK, WE ALREADY HAVE, UM, A REGIONAL COMMERCIAL NODE AND, UM, WE HAVE BRICK AND MORTAR, WHICH I BELIEVE IS GONNA BE RIGHT ABOUT IN HERE. AND SO IF I POP BACK OVER TO TRADITIONAL MIXED USE, YOU'LL SEE THAT THAT AREA IS TRADITIONAL MIXED USE. NOW, I SENSE, UH, FROM COMMISSIONER JAMES JAMES THAT HE IS CONCERNED, AND I'LL ASK YOU COMMISSIONER JAMES, TO CLARIFY, I DON'T WANT TO, UH, SPEAK FOR YOU, BUT, UM, CONCERNED THAT WE WOULD EFFECTIVELY BE SUGGESTING DISALLOWING THE SORT OF DEVELOPMENT THAT IS COMING WITH, UH, THE BRICK AND MORTAR DISTRICT AND THE NORTHERN PORTIONS OF, UM, OF PLUMB CREEK BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT WE'VE TAGGED THIS PLACE TYPE. IS THAT A, IS THAT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF YOUR CONCERN? NO, I, I ACTUALLY REWORD THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE BEST SUPPORT THE USES THAT ARE COMING IN? AND I THINK THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT DISALLOWING TO ME, IT'S ABOUT HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GIVING THE, THE IDEA TO DEVELOPERS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO SEE THROUGH OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND IT INCLUDES SOMETHING THAT WE'VE ALREADY PAID THE TIF FOR. LIKE, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE, HAVE A, WE HAVE A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT AREA IS INCLUDED IN, IN A WAY THAT GIVES DEVELOPERS A GUIDANCE. THIS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, VERSUS THEM COMING IN, HAVING KIND OF AN IDEA OF WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. GETTING TO STAFF SAYING IS, WHERE IS THIS AT? AND STAFF, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE HAVING TO FIGHT BACK IN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, HAVING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WELL THIS IS OUR INTENDED USE FOR WHAT WE THOUGHT WHEN WE PLANNED THE BRICK AND MORTAR DISTRICT. AND I WANT TO EASE THOSE TENSIONS TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR FOLKS TO BUILD WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR. OKAY. FANTASTIC. FANTASTIC. I, UM, I WOULD SUGGEST, UM, AND I, I DON'T WANNA DO TOO MUCH RIFFING HERE WITH MY COLLEAGUES, BUT I WILL JUST SUGGEST THAT WHAT I'M SENSING IS, UH, A NEED TO ENSURE THAT WHEN WE ARE DESCRIBING THE PLACE TYPES IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THAT WE ARE GIVING VERY CLEAR CUES ABOUT HOW A GIVEN PLACE TYPE ADAPTS AND CHANGES BASED ON GEOGRAPHIC CLUES AND OTHER SORT OF DEVELOPMENT THAT'S HAPPENING AROUND IT. BECAUSE WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT THE CAPACITY FOR THE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT THAT WE WANT IN THE MORE NUANCED AREAS THROUGHOUT SOMETHING AS LARGE AS TRADITIONAL MIXED USE REALLY GETS AT THE, THE NEEDS AND WANTS OF THE COMMUNITY. [01:15:04] YEAH, THAT'S TO ME THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S EXACTLY LIKE, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M, I'M KIND OF GETTING AT. I MEAN, WE, WE HAD ZONING MEETINGS, WE HAD 4, 5, 6, 7 ITEMS COMING IN. WE WANNA, I WANNA MAKE SURE IT'S AS EFFECTIVE AS POSSIBLE FOR US TO BE ABLE TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS AND GET THE RIGHT THINGS IN. THAT MAKES SENSE. COMMISSIONER STEGEL, I OKAY, GOOD. THANK YOU FOR TALKING THROUGH THAT WITH US. YES. COMMISSIONER STEGEL, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I BELIEVE, UH, COMMISSIONER JAMES IN, IN THAT I WOULD LIKE THERE TO BE CLEAR SIGNALING, UM, TO, UH, DEVELOPERS AND INVESTORS WHAT WE WOULD LIKE THE BEST USE, UM, FOR THAT AREA TO BE. WHAT, WHAT THE BEST, UH, INCENTIVE IS FOR THEM TO COME IN AND DO REALLY WHAT'S THE BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY. UM, I THINK WE'RE IN THIS PLACE WHERE I, THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT, THERE ARE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THIS MEETING FOR, OUTSIDE OF THIS MEETING WHO HAVE ALREADY MADE DECISIONS, UH, AND BOXED US OUT OF WHAT OUR PLAN IS ALREADY. SO WE GOTTA BE IN A POSITION OF CATCHING UP HERE, IN MY VIEW, TO REALLY CREATE A VISION THAT IS AS SOON AS WE PRACTICALLY CAN REALLY DOES COMMUNICATE TO DEVELOPERS AND INVESTORS WHAT OUR EXPECTATIONS ARE. UM, I HAVE THIS SENSE THAT IN, IN A CITY LIKE OURS, WE'RE SOMEHOW ALWAYS BEHIND. UM, AND THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE AS FAST AS IT'S GROWING, BUT I MEAN BEHIND IN TERMS OF INFORMATION. AND SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO, I THINK, TO SIGNAL TO PEOPLE WHAT THE EXPECTATION IS SO THAT THEY CAN APPLY THEMSELVES, THEIR RESOURCES TO MEET OUR COMMUNITY NEEDS. THANK YOU FOR THAT. OKAY. WELL, I THINK THOSE WERE SOME EXCELLENT COMMENTS THAT CERTAINLY HELP US, UM, JUST CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT MORE WHAT WE HEARD AND, AND MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY UTILIZE THAT FEEDBACK GOING FORWARD. SO THANK YOU FOR, UH, ALLOWING US TO, TO REVISIT THAT FOR A MOMENT. UM, SO BEFORE I, I WRAP US UP, UM, ANY OTHER, OTHER THOUGHTS OR CONCERNS? ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANYTHING? OKAY. UH, NO MA'AM. IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE HERE. OKAY, GREAT. SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR, YOUR TIME AND YOUR ATTENTION AND YOUR PARTICIPATION. WE ALWAYS GET A LOT OUT OF VISITING WITH THIS GROUP AND I THINK TONIGHT HAS BEEN NO EXCEPTION TO THAT. UM, SO MOVING FORWARD, UH, NEXT STEPS, WE OF COURSE WILL BE WORKING TO, UM, PLAN OUR THIRD TRIP TO KYLE, WHERE WE'RE REALLY GOING TO BE FOCUSING WITH, UH, YOU ALL THE COMMUNITY AND THE STAFF LOOKING AT SCENARIOS FOR FUTURE GROWTH. AND I THINK THAT YOU'LL FIND THAT THAT, UM, IS GOING TO PLUG IN NICELY TO SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE TONIGHT AND BE A CONTINUATION OF THIS DISCUSSION. UM, AND WE WILL GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE FEEDBACK THAT WE HEARD TONIGHT AND PERHAPS DOING A LITTLE BIT OF, OF FINE TUNING ON THIS TOO. SO I THINK WE'RE IN EXCELLENT SHAPE. UM, SO THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT TIME THAT WE VISIT WITH YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE WILL MOVE ON TO, UM, ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, GENERAL DISCUSSION SEVEN, A DISCUSSION ONLY REGARDING PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION REQUEST FOR FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. ARE THERE ANY COMMISSIONERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO, UH, SUGGEST A FUTURE AGENDA ITEM? OKAY, WE'LL MOVE ON. [8.  Staff Report] ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, STAFF REPORT EIGHT, A STAFF REPORT BY WILLIAM ATKINSON, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING. WILL ATKINSON, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING FOR THE RECORD. UH, THE BIG ONE IS, UM, MYSELF, UM, KAYLA AND COMMISSIONER ANKIN. WE ARE ATTENDING THE NATIONAL PLANNING CONFERENCE, UH, THIS COMING OR THIS WEEK, UH, WE'RE LEAVING FLYING OUT FRIDAY, AND WE'RE COMING BACK NEXT WEDNESDAY, AND THAT'S IN PHILADELPHIA. SO WE'LL GET TO LEARN A LOT AND GOING TO TOUR OR TWO, I SUPPOSE, AND ALL THAT KIND OF FUN STUFF. SO, UM, ALSO, UM, WE HAVE A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT COMING UP PER COUNCIL'S DIRECTION. IT'S GONNA BE ON THE, UH, 11TH FOR, UH, AMENDING A REGIONAL NODE DOWN AT, UH, 21 AND ONE 50. AND ALSO THERE'S GOING TO BE A ZONING CASE COMING FORWARD AS WELL. UM, BUT THOSE ARE THE BIG THINGS, UH, ON THE NEAR HORIZON. UM, THAT THEN THAT'S WHAT I GOT. SO I MOTION BY MYSELF, JUST BY, UH, COMMISSIONER SIEGEL. UH, ALL THOSE A FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL BOTH. GOODNIGHT EVERYONE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.